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Cathy Pacific questions
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johnsonrod
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Update questions...
What's the latest with Cathay? I realize hiring may not start for awhile. I do have some questions:
1. It has been stated that you could get hired onto any fleet and fly out of any US domicile. So, given that only 777 and 744 aircraft serve the US market, what would the schedule of an ATL-based 777 pilot, for example, look like (I don't believe 777s are used to serve ATL - only 744Fs)? Would you be repositioned to a city served by 777s and start from there?
2. On average, what are junior pilots (newhires) seeing in terms of days off per month?
3. Do US based pilots get much flying beyond Hong Kong internationally? For example, would a US pilot get any Australia, Europe or Middle East flying or just fly back and forth to Hong Kong from the US?
4. If you start on the 744, how long before you would be bumped to the 777 given the growth of that fleet? I would enjoy either fleet...
PMs are welcome.
What's the latest with Cathay? I realize hiring may not start for awhile. I do have some questions:
1. It has been stated that you could get hired onto any fleet and fly out of any US domicile. So, given that only 777 and 744 aircraft serve the US market, what would the schedule of an ATL-based 777 pilot, for example, look like (I don't believe 777s are used to serve ATL - only 744Fs)? Would you be repositioned to a city served by 777s and start from there?
2. On average, what are junior pilots (newhires) seeing in terms of days off per month?
3. Do US based pilots get much flying beyond Hong Kong internationally? For example, would a US pilot get any Australia, Europe or Middle East flying or just fly back and forth to Hong Kong from the US?
4. If you start on the 744, how long before you would be bumped to the 777 given the growth of that fleet? I would enjoy either fleet...
PMs are welcome.
Hiring may not start until 2011 or 2012, if then. CX may not have DEFO positions anymore so you would start at SO in Hong Kong for 36 months. Judging by your stated flight time, you are not competitive for an SO position now. There are no 777 pilots based in ATL - and I would imagine there never will be in the forseeable future, although Bjammin should know more- ATL is not a One World port or a viable destination. Additionally, the schedule for an ATL based FO on the 747-400 is something like one 9 day trip and one 5 day trip a month on average. 9 days is long. Most importantly, there are no vacant positions available in ATL, and probably will not be for a long time. US based pilots flying on the passenger base generally fly to Hong Kong and back - occasionally but seldom is anything else rostered - so if you like Hong Kong and staying at the company hotel called the Headland hotel then that would be good for you. You never will cross more than 12 time zones in a single duty cycle for good reason, so from ATL or JFK, you will not be going any further west.
Time off depends on how much special 'voluntary' leave you are expected to take - 3 weeks a year currently for FO's due to overstaffing and 4 weeks for Captain. That is unpaid leave. Upgrade to Captain is being extended out to about 16 years, and that is with a little hope thrown in. Probably more like 18 years; and in the future you will have to move to Hong Kong to upgrade to CN.
If you start on the 744 right now, you probably would not swap to the 777 for a long time - CX does not like to waste money on silly things like conversions, or upholding seniority (and they don't). You could probably commute to LAX and be on the 777 - but SFO will continue using the 747-4. JFK is only a 747 freight base - again, bad rosters. 777 good, 747-400 bad for schedules - both are shiny new jets though.
If ATL is home, then CX is a really far place to work - and if you ever want to go anywhere on your own airline, you have to buy a ZED fare just to get to a CX port to go to Hong Kong and eventually end up where you wanted to be for vacation, and the ticket isn't anywhere close to free!
Time off depends on how much special 'voluntary' leave you are expected to take - 3 weeks a year currently for FO's due to overstaffing and 4 weeks for Captain. That is unpaid leave. Upgrade to Captain is being extended out to about 16 years, and that is with a little hope thrown in. Probably more like 18 years; and in the future you will have to move to Hong Kong to upgrade to CN.
If you start on the 744 right now, you probably would not swap to the 777 for a long time - CX does not like to waste money on silly things like conversions, or upholding seniority (and they don't). You could probably commute to LAX and be on the 777 - but SFO will continue using the 747-4. JFK is only a 747 freight base - again, bad rosters. 777 good, 747-400 bad for schedules - both are shiny new jets though.
If ATL is home, then CX is a really far place to work - and if you ever want to go anywhere on your own airline, you have to buy a ZED fare just to get to a CX port to go to Hong Kong and eventually end up where you wanted to be for vacation, and the ticket isn't anywhere close to free!
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As for SLS (special leave scheme), it is NOT an ongoing thing. Those that agreed to do it (not everyone did) will do it ONLY once. For SO's it was 2 weeks unpaid leave, for FO's 3 weeks unpaid leave, and for CA's it was 4 weeks unpaid leave.
Hope this helps.
johnsonrod
Well-known member
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- Feb 25, 2006
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- 4,218
twobits and blade230,
Thanks for the great info. I have heard good and bad about CX. Obviously the ability to fly internationally and still live in the US is a major plus - unlike Emirates or QR. I realize Korean and some of the JAL/ANA contracts also allow the ability to live in the US.
Just curious about ATL (I don't live there) given that I know 777s don't serve that location - only 744Fs. It was more of a hypothetical question.
BTW, my profile is at least 5 years old and it doesn't reflect my real flight time... I have been flying my ERJ for many years and I am always looking for alternatives (when operators are hiring of course).
Thanks for the great info. I have heard good and bad about CX. Obviously the ability to fly internationally and still live in the US is a major plus - unlike Emirates or QR. I realize Korean and some of the JAL/ANA contracts also allow the ability to live in the US.
Just curious about ATL (I don't live there) given that I know 777s don't serve that location - only 744Fs. It was more of a hypothetical question.
BTW, my profile is at least 5 years old and it doesn't reflect my real flight time... I have been flying my ERJ for many years and I am always looking for alternatives (when operators are hiring of course).
Thanks for the great info...but has CX publish this info that they will not hire until 2011-2012 and that they are moving away from hiring DEFO. Once again thanks for taking time and answering our questions.
CX has not directly published this information. However - here are a few items of information that may help you in making your own prediction for future hiring at CX.
1st - SO's are likely about to get the Bypass pay and the promotion they should have had a long time ago. The company is not going to keep these pilots as SO, when they can upgrade them and have more flexibility for the same price. ie - no more DEFO.
2nd - Retirement age just increased from 55 to 65
3rd - Every CX pilot was asked to take voluntary leave this year averaging over 3 weeks per pilot
4th - flight time limitations changes may allow CX to schedule 3 man Ultra long haul from Hong Kong to Europe. That is 25% fewer pilots on all passenger european flights!
plug that into your computer and see what you get! Not to mention the fact there are Cadet SO's already in Adelaide with a seniority number waiting to start in HKG.
1st - SO's are likely about to get the Bypass pay and the promotion they should have had a long time ago. The company is not going to keep these pilots as SO, when they can upgrade them and have more flexibility for the same price. ie - no more DEFO.
2nd - Retirement age just increased from 55 to 65
3rd - Every CX pilot was asked to take voluntary leave this year averaging over 3 weeks per pilot
4th - flight time limitations changes may allow CX to schedule 3 man Ultra long haul from Hong Kong to Europe. That is 25% fewer pilots on all passenger european flights!
plug that into your computer and see what you get! Not to mention the fact there are Cadet SO's already in Adelaide with a seniority number waiting to start in HKG.
Flyby1206
Well-known member
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- Jun 30, 2004
- Posts
- 1,088
Ouch! Any ideas about DESO? Or will that be all cadets?
Cpt. Underpants
Super Hero
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- Oct 23, 2003
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- 324
Our B744's are being withdrawn from pax services and replaced by B777ER's.
There are major redesigns of airspace in the Pearl River Delta (HKG, MFM, SZX, ZUH, GHZ) - something akin to SOCAL airspace - that will significantly shorten departures and arrivals to Europe and points Northwest. This will allow CX to schedule 3 man ops within our FTL's.
This means all S/O's will be redundant. Although there will be retirements and resignations, terminations and loss of licence "movements", all the slack will be taken up the S/O's already in the system.
CX is committed to a localization program, recruiting and training local S/O's.
They have further expanded the program to lure those wanting to fly but unable to pay for the necessary training. The deal? Sign on under local terms and conditions. Sounds benign, but it denies the candidate all expat benefits such as housing and education allowances. For the USD200K the candidate "saves", they will give up, over a career of 30 years, about USD5 MILLION in "benefits" under the present scheme. And the "cadet" is also bonded for four years.
The headlong rush to career mediocrity continues.
There are major redesigns of airspace in the Pearl River Delta (HKG, MFM, SZX, ZUH, GHZ) - something akin to SOCAL airspace - that will significantly shorten departures and arrivals to Europe and points Northwest. This will allow CX to schedule 3 man ops within our FTL's.
This means all S/O's will be redundant. Although there will be retirements and resignations, terminations and loss of licence "movements", all the slack will be taken up the S/O's already in the system.
CX is committed to a localization program, recruiting and training local S/O's.
They have further expanded the program to lure those wanting to fly but unable to pay for the necessary training. The deal? Sign on under local terms and conditions. Sounds benign, but it denies the candidate all expat benefits such as housing and education allowances. For the USD200K the candidate "saves", they will give up, over a career of 30 years, about USD5 MILLION in "benefits" under the present scheme. And the "cadet" is also bonded for four years.
The headlong rush to career mediocrity continues.
Cpt. Underpants
I wanted to thank you and few others publicly for all your help and the information you all shared with me when I was going threw selection process with CX. Its people like you who attracted me to want to join CX. Just like many others I have been waiting for over year now and 2012 is long time away and truth be told financially doesn't make sense to join at that time as I will start making over 100K in 2010 and its hard to take a other pay cut, I talked to few others who have been waiting for class date and they feel the same way, I know 2 of the them are headed to EK. CX was always my airline of choice and with your help I was able to pass the interview and for that I thank you.
I wanted to thank you and few others publicly for all your help and the information you all shared with me when I was going threw selection process with CX. Its people like you who attracted me to want to join CX. Just like many others I have been waiting for over year now and 2012 is long time away and truth be told financially doesn't make sense to join at that time as I will start making over 100K in 2010 and its hard to take a other pay cut, I talked to few others who have been waiting for class date and they feel the same way, I know 2 of the them are headed to EK. CX was always my airline of choice and with your help I was able to pass the interview and for that I thank you.
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Cpt. Underpants
Super Hero
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- Oct 23, 2003
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uspilot
You're welcome. I have always endeavored to tell it the way it is here - no bells or whistles and without the shiny new jet enthusiasm of others. It's a job - it used to be an outstanding job. As they say out here "horses for courses".*
* http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/horses+for+courses.html
You're welcome. I have always endeavored to tell it the way it is here - no bells or whistles and without the shiny new jet enthusiasm of others. It's a job - it used to be an outstanding job. As they say out here "horses for courses".*
* http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/horses+for+courses.html
Bjammin
Cease Buzzer
- Joined
- May 13, 2004
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- 585
...Thank you from me as well. I also will always tell you the way it is here, from my personal perspective, both good and bad. While I have not had the years in as Cpt. U, I have had many dealings with management as well as my share of tragedies and successes.
Coming from a Naval tactical jet background, shiny-new jet syndrome is not a factor as no flying, for me, will compare to operating off the ship. What is important to me is maximizing pay and quality of life while staying airborne. I have squadron mates in most every airline in the states and some overseas and we compare airlines often. I compile that info and try to give my best conclusion on this company. As said before, your satisfaction with an airline is very personal. For one example of many, some love the domestic routes and fun-loving feel of SWA while others want to live overseas and fly four hole'rs over oceans.
Best of luck to you and hopefully we will all find our Shangri La someday.
Coming from a Naval tactical jet background, shiny-new jet syndrome is not a factor as no flying, for me, will compare to operating off the ship. What is important to me is maximizing pay and quality of life while staying airborne. I have squadron mates in most every airline in the states and some overseas and we compare airlines often. I compile that info and try to give my best conclusion on this company. As said before, your satisfaction with an airline is very personal. For one example of many, some love the domestic routes and fun-loving feel of SWA while others want to live overseas and fly four hole'rs over oceans.
Best of luck to you and hopefully we will all find our Shangri La someday.
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Cpt. Underpants
Super Hero
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- Oct 23, 2003
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CX are not hiring at present.
However, (bearing in mind that CX peg their "competitive minimums" on who's out there) I would say that TODAY you would have a shot with about 5000TT, Multi/IFR (of course) and command time exceeding 2000 hrs on anything bigger than a CRJ
We fly 2 man crew on any sector < 9 hrs, 3 man >9 <15, and 4 man >15.
We have no more "classic" freighters (no F/E's in CX), many -400F's, -400ERF's, -400BCF's and our first 747-8F is about a year away.
At present rates of retirement and growth, expect 15 years as an F/O.
However, (bearing in mind that CX peg their "competitive minimums" on who's out there) I would say that TODAY you would have a shot with about 5000TT, Multi/IFR (of course) and command time exceeding 2000 hrs on anything bigger than a CRJ
We fly 2 man crew on any sector < 9 hrs, 3 man >9 <15, and 4 man >15.
We have no more "classic" freighters (no F/E's in CX), many -400F's, -400ERF's, -400BCF's and our first 747-8F is about a year away.
At present rates of retirement and growth, expect 15 years as an F/O.
atpcliff
Well-known member
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- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 4,260
Hi!
Heard on other threads CX probably open up the hiring process soon, like many other carriers. Demand has picked up and is strong in Asia.
I know a Cathay guy. He said it was a horrible airline. I know another guy in the pool, who says, for him, it is THE best aviation job in the world. I also know a Cathay guy who lived in Hong Kong. He said it was the best years of his life, and he LOVED HK!
cliff
LFW
PS-I will update my application, and would enjoy the job there.
Heard on other threads CX probably open up the hiring process soon, like many other carriers. Demand has picked up and is strong in Asia.
I know a Cathay guy. He said it was a horrible airline. I know another guy in the pool, who says, for him, it is THE best aviation job in the world. I also know a Cathay guy who lived in Hong Kong. He said it was the best years of his life, and he LOVED HK!
cliff
LFW
PS-I will update my application, and would enjoy the job there.
Swire, Haeco Halted on Transaction Statements; Cathay Suspended
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By Wendy Leung and Kyunghee Park
June 7 (Bloomberg) -- Swire Pacific Ltd. and affiliate Hong Kong Aircraft Engineering Co. halted their shares from trading in the city pending statements related to takeovers and mergers.
Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd., an affiliate of Swire and Haeco, also suspended its stock ahead of a “price sensitive” announcement. The Hong Kong-based companies gave no further details in their stock exchange statements today and didn’t say whether the suspensions were related.
Cathay Pacific in September agreed to sell a HK$1.9 billion ($244 million) stake in Haeco to Swire, its largest shareholder, boosting cash holdings amid plunging travel demand. The airline still has a 15 percent stake in Haeco, Hong Kong’s largest airplane maintenance provider, while Swire owns 46 percent, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
“There is a possibility that the remaining shares may be sold,” said Kelvin Lau, a Hong Kong-based analyst at Daiwa Institute of Research. “Swire may want Cathay to focus more on the airline business.”
Swire owns 42 percent of Cathay Pacific, Hong Kong’s largest airline.
Cindy Cheung, a spokeswoman for Swire, and Carolyn Leung, a Cathay spokeswoman, declined to comment. A call to Haeco went unanswered.
Swire and Haeco both said they would make announcements “pursuant to the Hong Kong Code on Takeovers and Mergers.”
To contact the reporters on this story: Wendy Leung in Hong Kong at [email protected]; Kyunghee Park in Hong Kong at [email protected]
Last Updated: June 6, 2010 22:20 EDT
Share Business ExchangeTwitterFacebook| Email | Print | A A A
By Wendy Leung and Kyunghee Park
June 7 (Bloomberg) -- Swire Pacific Ltd. and affiliate Hong Kong Aircraft Engineering Co. halted their shares from trading in the city pending statements related to takeovers and mergers.
Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd., an affiliate of Swire and Haeco, also suspended its stock ahead of a “price sensitive” announcement. The Hong Kong-based companies gave no further details in their stock exchange statements today and didn’t say whether the suspensions were related.
Cathay Pacific in September agreed to sell a HK$1.9 billion ($244 million) stake in Haeco to Swire, its largest shareholder, boosting cash holdings amid plunging travel demand. The airline still has a 15 percent stake in Haeco, Hong Kong’s largest airplane maintenance provider, while Swire owns 46 percent, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
“There is a possibility that the remaining shares may be sold,” said Kelvin Lau, a Hong Kong-based analyst at Daiwa Institute of Research. “Swire may want Cathay to focus more on the airline business.”
Swire owns 42 percent of Cathay Pacific, Hong Kong’s largest airline.
Cindy Cheung, a spokeswoman for Swire, and Carolyn Leung, a Cathay spokeswoman, declined to comment. A call to Haeco went unanswered.
Swire and Haeco both said they would make announcements “pursuant to the Hong Kong Code on Takeovers and Mergers.”
To contact the reporters on this story: Wendy Leung in Hong Kong at [email protected]; Kyunghee Park in Hong Kong at [email protected]
Last Updated: June 6, 2010 22:20 EDT
just a guess...Bloomberg.
Cpt. Underpants
Super Hero
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- Posts
- 324
milflyboy
FYI we have about 300 S/O's (second officers) who been designated eaters for three, sometimes four years now. They already have CX in court for breach of contract issues regarding pay and benefits resulting from the last batch of DEFO hires. Word on the street is that the S/O's will win this one. Present estimates for DOJ as a S/O to command are...
26 years.
Yes, things do change, and rapidly.
Honestly (and I don't mean to burst your bubble) I don't think there will be any DEFO hiring soon. Here's why:
As the B747-800F's arrive, older BCF's will be withdrawn from service with a zero net fleet growth on the freighter side.
The B773ER's are still arriving, but it's no secret that the 5 X B772's are not a compatible fleet fit, and will go sooner rather than later. The A343's will go soon too. Mates (TRE/TRI's) leaving the B744 fleet returning to the AB fleet are not even being CCQ'd on the A343, and are flying the A333 exclusively.
Yes, CX is looking at a new ULH machine and RFP's are out. Best guess is a mix of A350 and B787 to replace older A333's - and we have a bunch of them. No A380's or B747-800I's. Yet.
I'm not sure if it's MILFlyboy or MILflyboy, but if you're military and nearing end of contract, I suggest you write to CX recruitment and establish max hiring age, or at the very least get your name in the system if you haven't already done so.
Best of luck.
FYI we have about 300 S/O's (second officers) who been designated eaters for three, sometimes four years now. They already have CX in court for breach of contract issues regarding pay and benefits resulting from the last batch of DEFO hires. Word on the street is that the S/O's will win this one. Present estimates for DOJ as a S/O to command are...
26 years.
Yes, things do change, and rapidly.
Honestly (and I don't mean to burst your bubble) I don't think there will be any DEFO hiring soon. Here's why:
As the B747-800F's arrive, older BCF's will be withdrawn from service with a zero net fleet growth on the freighter side.
The B773ER's are still arriving, but it's no secret that the 5 X B772's are not a compatible fleet fit, and will go sooner rather than later. The A343's will go soon too. Mates (TRE/TRI's) leaving the B744 fleet returning to the AB fleet are not even being CCQ'd on the A343, and are flying the A333 exclusively.
Yes, CX is looking at a new ULH machine and RFP's are out. Best guess is a mix of A350 and B787 to replace older A333's - and we have a bunch of them. No A380's or B747-800I's. Yet.
I'm not sure if it's MILFlyboy or MILflyboy, but if you're military and nearing end of contract, I suggest you write to CX recruitment and establish max hiring age, or at the very least get your name in the system if you haven't already done so.
Best of luck.
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