CASS and MLOA

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez - come on...now you're crossing the line. You lost all credibility here by bringing politics into a thread from a military aviator asking his fellow military brethren their experience on j/s'ing while on MLOA.

No, I brought politics in this for two reasons: To try and kill the j/s discussion and also bring up an important part of being an Air Line Pilot.

You want to know what I'm really afraid of?

Control your fear. Politics isn't black and white. More later...

Forget my CIV job,

I am so very disapointed you said that...

let's talk about our national security. The last thing I want is a weak appeaser like Clinton (I'm actually disgusted typing her name), Obama - who has absolutely zero experience in foreign policy, or Edwards who's just a wimp altogether. You get one of those clowns elected - well, we won't have a military at all...we'll just hug the terrorists and tax American citizens more so we can get another government sponsored program to listen to their feelings. We need someone that will kick a$$ for years to come and will continue to beef up our military and our foreign policy might - namely Romney, Giuliani, and Thompson.

All the above is fine. However, the intended (or unintended) consequences......be prepared to be treated very poorly as an Air Line Pilot. Poor wages, poor work rules, poor benefits and no retirement. This is how our companies view us: hourly labor. No different from a hotel maid. There is no loyalty. Our companies are not in service of our country. They are in service of the all mighty dollar. The sign in our bosses office says "If you have something then I don't have everything"

I could care less about my civilian job

So so very disapointed...

when our national security is in jeapordy in the first place.

That is/was/will be the million dollar question.....

Last but not least - Magnum is my squadron mate.

And both of you are my Fellow Air Line Pilots.

We've been flying in the military the last few years together. We share a bond that no civilian can understand - not that that's a bad thing - but it's just something military bro's throughout all services share that just doesn't exist in the civilian world.

Loyalty is how much you give, how much you get and rightousness

Period, dot. I will defend him and go to war with him any day of the week. Maybe he mad a mistake in the past when he j/s'ed. If so, I apologize. I can assure he's very intelligent, he's a great aviator, and most importantly he's got a very solid foundation in integrity. We all make mistakes and do things we shouldn't have. Hence the definition of humanity.

I agree.

We all make mistakes... how we respond afterwards defines who we are....

You made the mistake of poking your nose in here.

This is a public board of opinions. If you want secure comaradiere then get a password protected webboard.

This was a friendly chat amongst military bro's and their experiences j/s'ing while on mil leave. We don't need you to continue to critique us nor do we need your help.

Acutally, you do need help from union volunteers to manage your MLOA, benefits, USERRA (sp), and CASS issues. Did you sleep through CRM?

We'll do just fine, trust me.

Of course...

There are many MIL pilots that understand what it means to be an Air Line Pilot. I don't think you are going to hear from me. Seek them out and ask.

If Hilary Clinton wants to author the Air Line Pilot Career Restoration Act of 2008 I'll met with her, work with her staff and make it so. It doesn't mean I like her, I want her as President or I even identify with her. It means I am an issue oreintated pilot who is a custodian of the profession.

 

[Scrapdog]

No, I brought politics in this for two reasons: To try and kill the j/s discussion and also bring up an important part of being an Air Line Pilot.



Control your fear. Politics isn't black and white. More later...




I am so very disapointed you said that...



All the above is fine. However, the intended (or unintended) consequences......be prepared to be treated very poorly as an Air Line Pilot. Poor wages, poor work rules, poor benefits and no retirement. This is how our companies view us: hourly labor. No different from a hotel maid. There is no loyalty. Our companies are not in service of our country. They are in service of the all mighty dollar. The sign in our bosses office says "If you have something then I don't have everything"



So so very disapointed...



That is/was/will be the million dollar question.....




And both of you are my Fellow Air Line Pilots.



Loyalty is how much you give, how much you get and rightousness




I agree.

We all make mistakes... how we respond afterwards defines who we are....



This is a public board of opinions. If you want secure comaradiere then get a password protected webboard.



Acutally, you do need help from union volunteers to manage your MLOA, benefits, USERRA (sp), and CASS issues. Did you sleep through CRM?




Of course...

There are many MIL pilots that understand what it means to be an Air Line Pilot. I don't think you are going to hear from me. Seek them out and ask.

If Hilary Clinton wants to author the Air Line Pilot Career Restoration Act of 2008 I'll met with her, work with her staff and make it so. It doesn't mean I like her, I want her as President or I even identify with her. It means I am an issue oreintated pilot who is a custodian of the profession.

LOL - As usual you twist my words. When I say I could care less about my civ job...it's only in reference to the fact that my cares about our nation's national security come first. I do care about civ job, however I have priorities...and that is second in priority to what I mentioned above. You have yours, I have mine. If you so feel that you need to be disappointed in me Rez, by all means - do what you need to do.

I feel no matter what I say, you'll always feel the need to re-butt it. Therefore, our conversation is over. If you feel you need to re-butt this post, by all means go ahead...but I'm done. I just wanted to help a fellow mil bro out with my j/s'ing experiences so far on mil leave - and that's what I thought this thread was about.

Rez, I wish you good luck in your life dude. I think our beer will have to wait - it seems we don't have that much in common after all.

 

[stonewall]

C'mon, everyone, group hug. Scrapdog is right in that if our nation ain't secure, there's no point in having commerce. Rez is absolutely right in that our civilian employers will replace us in a heartbeat if they could get away with it.

There's room to care about both. I know Scrapdog does, he's a professional pilot in both worlds. Trust me, you want him with you whether you're crossing the fence in combat or flying the IAH-EWR redeye in Hurricane Rita. Both our active duty pilots and our civilian pilots play important roles in this country, and our pilots that do BOTH have to straddle a fence that isn't always easy to straddle...at least until we can't do our military jobs effectively anymore.

I think Rez is correct in that we need to do more as pilots to protect our economic future. I absolutely love my Guard job and won't give it up easily, but it's Fedex that's going to put my kids through college.

 

[pilotyip]

Hang in there

I think Rez is correct in that we need to do more as pilots to protect our economic future. I absolutely love my Guard job and won't give it up easily, but it's Fedex that's going to put my kids through college.

A lot of DAL, UAL, etc pilots who dropped out of the reserves, I know I flew with them, said the reserves were not worth the effort. There Major Airline retirement would have them set for life. As one of my DAL buddies who stayed said. "Man finishing up my reserves to retirement is one of the smartest things I have ever done." Tricare for life has a nice touch.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

LOL - As usual you twist my words. When I say I could care less about my civ job...it's only in reference to the fact that my cares about our nation's national security come first.

Actually you can do both. That is the trick. Many people feel there is a decsion or a priority. You can politically support both your MIL and CIV job. It is one of the most difficult fences to walk...but as magnum said...

I do care about civ job, however I have priorities...and that is second in priority to what I mentioned above. You have yours, I have mine. If you so feel that you need to be disappointed in me Rez, by all means - do what you need to do.

Again the goal is to get pilots to realize not to choose. One can actually vote for a pro-labor president and still work anti-abortion, anti-gay, pro-defense/nat'l security or whatever the issues are..

I feel no matter what I say, you'll always feel the need to re-butt it. Therefore, our conversation is over. If you feel you need to re-butt this post, by all means go ahead...but I'm done.

This is more than being about you.... for every person that posts there are 10+ lurkers/readers..

I just wanted to help a fellow mil bro out with my j/s'ing experiences so far on mil leave - and that's what I thought this thread was about.

Funny.. that is what I wanted to do... help him and protect the program....

Rez, I wish you good luck in your life dude.

And in yours....

I think our beer will have to wait - it seems we don't have that much in common after all.

I disagree. I think we both want national defense, great Air Line jobs, jumpseating and beer. Wouldn't you agree? Maybe magnum can sit between us...

 

[LeonPhelps]

Lots of inconsistency. I'm on MLA right now....I'm FDX and supposedly out of CASS due to the MLA. I tried to jump on US Airways out of TLH (feeder, not sure which one it was). They couldn't get the CASS working at the gate, but 3-4 FA's were waiting to J/S (pleasure trip, not working) and they wanted to get me on so they had more seats on the next flight. One of the FA's walked to the flight deck and asked the Capt if I could ride in the cockpit. He said "sure." I rode in the cockpit without processing through CASS. In CLT, I was given a boarding pass to ride in the cabin just by showing my company ID.

I think Scrapdog has the best answer. If you have seats in the back, just try to explain to the gate agent that you're not in CASS due to MLA but that you can still ride in the back. Hopefully the Captain will back you up if you get the chance to rap with him.

One thing Magnum failed to mention is that even he is more of a ladies man than good ole' Leon Phelps. Woooooweeeeeee!!! He and that brother of his, those boys armed with a box of some fine mexican wine can charm the lips off any old flight attendants...no wonder those ladies were givin' up they seats to Magnum. Damn Magnum, you go boy!!! Tearin' it up!!!

 

[Slye]

Anyone heard of your company requesting you to turn in your company ID badge if you go on MLOA, thereby not allowing you to even ride in the back? Does this happen?

On another slightly related note: I've heard the airlines have to allow you one day of travel on either side of any military orders you might take. For instance, if you have to do an AFTP on Tuesday, can they make you start a trip on Wednesday morning? Doesn't seem like there are enough hours in the day for that, especially if you're a commuter. I searched the USERRA regs w/ no luck. If you are allowed travel days, anyone have a reference to the reg? Thanks again!

 

[BiffF15]

Anyone heard of your company requesting you to turn in your company ID badge if you go on MLOA, thereby not allowing you to even ride in the back? Does this happen?

On another slightly related note: I've heard the airlines have to allow you one day of travel on either side of any military orders you might take. For instance, if you have to do an AFTP on Tuesday, can they make you start a trip on Wednesday morning? Doesn't seem like there are enough hours in the day for that, especially if you're a commuter. I searched the USERRA regs w/ no luck. If you are allowed travel days, anyone have a reference to the reg? Thanks again!

The way things worked at UAL were fairly straight forward. If your calendar had ML on it, they couldn't assign you. If it didn't you were on the hook. If you needed a travel day to get in position then ML even if you orders don't cover that day. I would contact your union and ask the Mil Rep over there.
Also, at UAL they requested either a letter from your unit commander OR a copy of your orders (with social blacked out). I always did the letter so it was never a problem (with travel days covered by Mil dates).

 

[Gunfighter]

USERRA - Return to Work after MLOA

Here is a link to the USERRA document. I've pasted the section for military duty of less than 31 days.

http://fhp.osd.mil/pdfs/userra.pdf

§ 4312. Reemployment rights of persons who serve in the uniformed services​

(e)(1) Subject to paragraph (2), a person referred to in subsection (a) shall, upon the completion of a period of service in the uniformed services, notify the employer referred to in such subsection of the person's intent to return to a position of employment with such employer as follows:
(A) In the case of a person whose period of service in the uniformed services was less than 31 days, by reporting to the employer--
(i) not later than the beginning of the first full regularly scheduled work period on the first full calendar day following the completion of the period of service and the expiration of eight hours after a period allowing for the safe transportation of the person from the place of that service to the person's residence; or
(ii) as soon as possible after the expiration of the eight-hour period referred to in clause (I), if reporting within the period referred to in such clause is impossible or unreasonable through no fault of the person.​

Here is my take on USERRA rights. If you returned to your residence at 1700 on Monday after completing military duty, your rest period would expire at 0100 on Tuesday. Wednesday is the first full calendar day following the completion of duty and rest.​

If you return to your residence (located near your military duty station) at 1559 on Monday, your rest is complete by 2359 and you should return to work on Tuesday. This may be impossible or unreasonable if the civilian duty station requires a commute from the military duty station.​

Bottom line, there is a provision to allow for rest and transportation following completion of military duty. The best approach is keeping both your civ and mil supervisor informed and don't try anything funny.​