CASS and MLOA

[BiffF15]

Any of you guys on MLOA still allowed in CASS. I am showing up as a current employee but unauthorized to Jump. I was wondering if it is a TSA thing or your own airline.

Thanks!

Tim

Tim,
It's your airline causing the "problem". When you jumpseat the gate agent / CSR inputs your data into the system. The "system" in turns contacts your company system to verify you are who you claim to be. When you go on Mil Leave the computer system at your airline doesn't show you as active, and in turn passes no data along to the CASS system. This is why you get CASS denial. I think Scrapdog said it correctly that you get denied cockpit acess however you are still eligible to ride in the back. The first thing you should do is contact your union jumpseat rep and get the skinny.
Biff

 

[PsubS]

Scrap, you're in the wrong on this one. Debrief rules apply.

Coming from another fighter bro (albeit retired from the mighty Eaglejet), I can say that this thread is like a debrief. Leave your supercharged ego at the vault door and walk on down to the room, close the door, and let the gloves come off. This thread and rebuke is NOT about your military service. Lord knows we need a new crop of fighter pilots to drink Weed and chase the bad guys.

The thread IS about your inability to follow the rules, especially when the fallout of such an action could negatively impact the rest of the airline community.

Exactly how would you explain your presence in a cockpit to the FAA or TSA if caught? Yes, the Captain invited you. He was wrong. You accepted the ride--you were equally wrong. The gate agent knew that you were not CASS qualified--they were wrong. You knew that you were not CASS qualified, yet you accepted the seat. You screwed up, son.

It won't take much for the CASS program to be rescinded or subject to far more "pain in the butt" factors if examples of impropriety leak out. Thus Rez is correct--you endangered MY program for your own benefit. How selfish is that?

Scrap, accept this verbal slap for what it is--a screw up. Fess up, learn from it, move on.

 

[pilotyip]

Cockpit without CASS

Ease up, Rez. An F/A asks the Captain if I can ride in the cockpit, he says yes, I get on the airplane. The option was to say "no thanks, Captain," and not go home. Don't you advocate Captains' authority?

I think you must be in CASS to offline JS in the cockpit. The Capt alone can not grant Cockpit JS without violating 121 and TSA regs.

 

[Scrapdog]

Scrap, you're in the wrong on this one. Debrief rules apply.

Coming from another fighter bro (albeit retired from the mighty Eaglejet), I can say that this thread is like a debrief. Leave your supercharged ego at the vault door and walk on down to the room, close the door, and let the gloves come off. This thread and rebuke is NOT about your military service. Lord knows we need a new crop of fighter pilots to drink Weed and chase the bad guys.

The thread IS about your inability to follow the rules, especially when the fallout of such an action could negatively impact the rest of the airline community.

Exactly how would you explain your presence in a cockpit to the FAA or TSA if caught? Yes, the Captain invited you. He was wrong. You accepted the ride--you were equally wrong. The gate agent knew that you were not CASS qualified--they were wrong. You knew that you were not CASS qualified, yet you accepted the seat. You screwed up, son.

It won't take much for the CASS program to be rescinded or subject to far more "pain in the butt" factors if examples of impropriety leak out. Thus Rez is correct--you endangered MY program for your own benefit. How selfish is that?

Scrap, accept this verbal slap for what it is--a screw up. Fess up, learn from it, move on.

PsubS - fair enough. For the record, I didn't "screw up" j/s'ing...I was defending Magnum who had the incident - but it doesn't matter - your words are noted and accepted.

Am I a little overly fired up on this? Yes, I will admit. However, listening to Rez play high and mighty on j/s'ing and then coming over to a mil thread while we are quietly talking amongst the bro's is kind of like your 3rd shot of weed - it tastes like crap and provides you absolutely nothing worth of value.

 

[stonewall]

Guys, I think you misunderstood what happened. I gave my badge and passport to the gate agent. She asked me if I was in CASS, I said "I'm not sure." My airline IS in CASS, but I may not be active right now. I do not know if FDX has dropped me in CASS. She said "standby." She appeared to have trouble with CASS at the gate, and it's unknown whether or not it was operator or system error. I still do not know if she pulled me up in CASS or not. I do not think she did, but I can't verify that.

Three F/As were waiting on a j/s and all traveling together. There were no seats in the back, but one decided to help me out and walked to the flightdeck just before door closing and asked if the Capt if I could ride up front. He said yes. The F/A walked back up and told me to go on down. I did. From the captain's perspective, he probably assumed I was verified in CASS. It's probably not relevant, but he was an IOE Capt with an LCA in the right seat (who was also an FFDO and carrying).

Maybe I should've doublechecked whether or not they verified me in CASS. I didn't think it was this big of a deal. Perhaps I'm wrong, though.

 

[Deuce130]

No, you're not wrong. This is much ado about nothing. The whole point of CASS is to protect us against them. Nothing more, nothing less. It's kind of like racial profiling. The CA made a judgement call and that's that. If anyone sincerely thinks we'll all lose J/S privileges b/c Magnum got by with one then they're not seeing the bigger picture.

 

[PsubS]

Scrap--sorry. I didn't read the previous posts closely enough and confused you with Magnum.

Magnum, you posted this previously:

I rode in the cockpit without processing through CASS.

Sounds like you knew what was going on, but hey... I could be wrong. By the way, the fact that there was a check airman/FFDO in the right seat is indeed irrelevant.

If anyone, Deuce included, believes that this program is bulletproof and can't go away at the drop of a bureaucratic hat, you're wrong. Perhaps this misstep won't be the tripwire, but similar circumstances could easily lead to big problems with the cockpit jumpseat. Its probably a good idea to be a little cautious, guys.

 

[pkober]

The funny thing is that Rez is Mr. ALPA. He shouldn't want to screw a ALPA "brother". He is completely not about true union brotherhood. He probably picks up trips while fellow ALPA bro's are furloughed. He just wants to lecture you with all his wisdom.

 

[stonewall]

Sounds like you knew what was going on, but hey... I could be wrong. By the way, the fact that there was a check airman/FFDO in the right seat is indeed irrelevant.

I think that's what I just said.

 

[RedDogC130]

I am playing devil's advocate here. So what is the point of CASS then? Just let anyone with ID on the flightdeck. What if they have an ID but forgot their license? Where do you draw the line? In my opinion/feeling is that Magnum knew that it was the last flight out possibly and he would have been stuck if he did not get on. I have a hard time believing that this was the first jumpseat he did while on that stint of mil leave and did not know whether he was in CASS or not. Just a thought.

 

[Deuce130]

. I have a hard time believing that this was the first jumpseat he did while on that stint of mil leave and did not know whether he was in CASS or not. Just a thought.

So now Magnum!! is likely to be responsible for the downfall of CASS AND he's a liar to boot? You have no idea how long his stint his or how many times he's jumpseated. He was also upfront about not being in CASS. He told a story about mil leave and jumpseating, was honest and factual, and you people are freaking out. Get over it, already. Your message is passed and the horse is dead. There's no need to question the integrity of someone you don't even know while you're at it. If you guys are that upset about it, call your j/s coordinators and rat him and the flight crew out. Make sure you cite FI.com as you're source, though.

 

[stonewall]

I have a hard time believing that this was the first jumpseat he did while on that stint of mil leave and did not know whether he was in CASS or not.

That's uncalled for. It was, in fact, the first time I've tried to j/s while on MLA. I live in my Guard city...why would I jumpseat anywhere? I don't make a habit of hopping flights to random cities. I clearly stated I told the gate agent I was unsure if I was active in CASS...why would someone lie to a gate agent about something like that when it can be verified? Don't assume because you might roll that way, others must also.

This whole thing is stupid. I wasn't trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes nor was I trying to skirt any rules. I was trying to get home from a TDY base to see my wife and kid. I appreciate all the advice regarding jumpseating, especially from people who actually know the rules like Rez. However, I'm not apologizing for anything, nor do I think anyone involved in the chain of events that night, from me to the gate agent to the F/A to the pilots of the flight, did anything wrong. I'm done with this thread.

 

[Full of LUV]

What if your airline is still showing you in CASS?

That's uncalled for. It was, in fact, the first time I've tried to j/s while on MLA. I live in my Guard city...why would I jumpseat anywhere? I don't make a habit of hopping flights to random cities. I clearly stated I told the gate agent I was unsure if I was active in CASS...why would someone lie to a gate agent about something like that when it can be verified? Don't assume because you might roll that way, others must also.

This whole thing is stupid. I wasn't trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes nor was I trying to skirt any rules. I was trying to get home from a TDY base to see my wife and kid. I appreciate all the advice regarding jumpseating, especially from people who actually know the rules like Rez. However, I'm not apologizing for anything, nor do I think anyone involved in the chain of events that night, from me to the gate agent to the F/A to the pilots of the flight, did anything wrong. I'm done with this thread.

I've been MLOA for nearly 9 months and still show up in CASS. Is it wrong to fly in the j/s if I am in CASS still?
Thanks

 

[RedDogC130]

I've been MLOA for nearly 9 months and still show up in CASS. Is it wrong to fly in the j/s if I am in CASS still?
Thanks

No that is the whole point. If you come up in CASS you can ride in the cockpit. If you are not you are stuck in the back. Not hard. Some people here can't get that. Magnum and Deuce...relax. You tell a story then get pissed at what people have to say. I think everyone gets the point now. Move on nothing to see here. Bye

 

[stonewall]

No that is the whole point. If you come up in CASS you can ride in the cockpit. If you are not you are stuck in the back. Not hard. Some people here can't get that. Magnum and Deuce...relax. You tell a story then get pissed at what people have to say. I think everyone gets the point now. Move on nothing to see here. Bye

Everyone "gets" that, RedDog. If the system works perfectly, no problem. The point of this thread was to highlight the different inconsistencies, issues, and problems with j/s while on MLA.

I didn't get pissed about anything until you called me a liar. Now I remember why I left FI for 4 months....

 

[Andy]

I've been MLOA for nearly 9 months and still show up in CASS. Is it wrong to fly in the j/s if I am in CASS still?
Thanks

I went VFR direct from furlough to mil leave. I'm in CASS. I've jumpseated on three flights since returning in Jan; one in the cockpit. All three flights on different carriers.

 

[pkober]

Everyone "gets" that, RedDog. If the system works perfectly, no problem. The point of this thread was to highlight the different inconsistencies, issues, and problems with j/s while on MLA.

I didn't get pissed about anything until you called me a liar. Now I remember why I left FI for 4 months....

Probably the most relaxing 4 months of your life!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

As far as the other MILITARY guy drinking beer while j/s'ing...well, I think it is a coincidence. Neither myself or Magnum is "that guy." As a matter of fact, I've seen civilian clowns blatantly break rules as well. It has absolutely nothing to do with being in the MILITARY or not. Are you one of those guys?

The guy who drank beer justified it with "the fighter pilot in me said go for it!"

Just like the CASS situation I don't think "The FA said it was ok to have a beer" is a ligitimate excuse...Just as "The CA said it was ok to ride the flightdeck j/s w/o CASS"

pkober called me out as a union guy.... well yeah... and when a pilot gets spanked for drinking beer while jumpseating or riding the flightdeck j/s without CASS- OK then it is the union volunteer who will sacrifice his personal time to defend the guilty party.

Would you rather hear about it on a moniker message board or from your Chief Pilot, FAA and/or TSA?




But enough about that... you MIL guys who have airline jobs have a much bigger problem: The 2008 presidential election.

If the majority of your future income and career is going to be from the CIV job then electing a pro labor president will be critical to your future.... I don't blame you for not wanting Clinton or Obama..maybe you like Dodd or Edwards? Biden? These are pro labor candidates that support union workers like you. It is your career...

 

[Tim47SIP]

Well guys, thanks for the replies. Rez, your concerns are noted but I just wanted to hear from the Mil guys and their experiences. I didnt mean this to become a pissing contest between Civs and Mil guys. We are all in this boat together, in more ways than you may think.

Tim

 

[Scrapdog]

The guy who drank beer justified it with "the fighter pilot in me said go for it!"

Just like the CASS situation I don't think "The FA said it was ok to have a beer" is a ligitimate excuse...Just as "The CA said it was ok to ride the flightdeck j/s w/o CASS"

pkober called me out as a union guy.... well yeah... and when a pilot gets spanked for drinking beer while jumpseating or riding the flightdeck j/s without CASS- OK then it is the union volunteer who will sacrifice his personal time to defend the guilty party.

Would you rather hear about it on a moniker message board or from your Chief Pilot, FAA and/or TSA?




But enough about that... you MIL guys who have airline jobs have a much bigger problem: The 2008 presidential election.

If the majority of your future income and career is going to be from the CIV job then electing a pro labor president will be critical to your future.... I don't blame you for not wanting Clinton or Obama..maybe you like Dodd or Edwards? Biden? These are pro labor candidates that support union workers like you. It is your career...

Rez - come on...now you're crossing the line. You lost all credibility here by bringing politics into a thread from a military aviator asking his fellow military brethren their experience on j/s'ing while on MLOA.

You want to know what I'm really afraid of? Forget my CIV job, let's talk about our national security. The last thing I want is a weak appeaser like Clinton (I'm actually disgusted typing her name), Obama - who has absolutely zero experience in foreign policy, or Edwards who's just a wimp altogether. You get one of those clowns elected - well, we won't have a military at all...we'll just hug the terrorists and tax American citizens more so we can get another government sponsored program to listen to their feelings. We need someone that will kick a$$ for years to come and will continue to beef up our military and our foreign policy might - namely Romney, Giuliani, and Thompson. I could care less about my civilian job when our national security is in jeapordy in the first place.

Last but not least - Magnum is my squadron mate. We've been flying in the military the last few years together. We share a bond that no civilian can understand - not that that's a bad thing - but it's just something military bro's throughout all services share that just doesn't exist in the civilian world. Period, dot. I will defend him and go to war with him any day of the week. Maybe he mad a mistake in the past when he j/s'ed. If so, I apologize. I can assure he's very intelligent, he's a great aviator, and most importantly he's got a very solid foundation in integrity. We all make mistakes and do things we shouldn't have. Hence the definition of humanity.

You made the mistake of poking your nose in here. This was a friendly chat amongst military bro's and their experiences j/s'ing while on mil leave. We don't need you to continue to critique us nor do we need your help. We'll do just fine, trust me.