Caribbean Airlines 737 Crashes in Guyana

[zonejumper]

Caribbean Airlines Crash In Guyana
From Associated Press:

A Caribbean Airlines jet coming from New York crashed and broke in two while landing in Guyana with 163 people aboard on Saturday, causing several injuries but no deaths, said President Bharrat Jagdeo. The Boeing 737-800 apparently overshot the 7,400-foot (2,200-meter) runway at Cheddi Jagan International Airport in rainy weather and barreled through a chain-link fence. It barely missed a 200-foot (60-meter) ravine that could have resulted in dozens of fatalities, he said.

"We are very, very grateful that more people were not injured," he said as authorities temporarily closed the airport, leaving hundreds of passengers stranded and delaying dozens of flights. The cause of the crash was not immediately clear.

Authorities struggled at first to remove passengers without adequate field lights and other emergency equipment. About 100 people received medical attention, with four hospitalized for serious injuries, said Devant Maharaj, transportation minister in Trinidad, where Caribbean Airlines is based.
He said the company is sending a team to Guyana to help investigate the crash. No further details were available. Maharaj spoke at a press conference in Trinidad and took no questions, saying the investigation is ongoing.
Among the injured was Geeta Ramsingh, 41, of Philadelphia, who said passengers had just started to applaud the touchdown "when it turned to screams," she said, pointing to bruises on her knees. She said she hopped onto the wing and then onto the dirt road outside the runway fence.
"I am upset that no one came to rescue us in the dark, but a taxi driver appeared from nowhere and charged me $20 to take me to the terminal. I had to pay, but in times of emergencies, you don't charge people for a ride," she said, sitting on a chair in the arrival area surrounded by relatives. She was returning to her native country for only the second time in 30 years.

Adis Cambridge, 42, of Guyana, said she felt the thump of a hard landing but did not think much of it until seconds later.

"I realized that everything was on top of me, people and bags. I was the second to last person to get off that plane in the dark," she said, surrounded by her two young children who had come to the airport to meet her after a brief holiday in the U.S.

"I hit my head on the roof. It was so scary," she said as she described hopping onto the wing and then jumping down to the dirt road below as crews with flashlights and beams from fire engines searched for passengers.
Some passengers asked authorities for their luggage but were told it was not a priority at the time.

The plane had left New York and made a stop in Trinidad before landing in Guyana. The airline said it was carrying 157 passengers and six crewmembers.

Jagdeo said he has asked the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board to help investigate the crash.

The airport's main terminal reopened late Saturday morning to only a couple of small planes, including a LIAT airline bound for Barbados, said Orin Walton, a local representative for the Antigua-based carrier.

The crash of Flight BW523 is the worst in recent history in Guyana, and only one of the few serious incidents involving the Trinidad-based airline. It is the single largest carrier in the region, operating at least five daily flights.

 

[thinairupthere]

I am glad and relieved that everyone survived but have one question. If you look at the picture- Reversers deployed, but no flaps out. Is there something that would raise them afterward? i.e.-loss of hydraulics, power loss, check list, etc? I am not in a 737 just interested in the picture.

 

[bluechunks]

If you look at the picture- Reversers deployed, but no flaps out. Is there something that would raise them afterward?

With loss of hydraulics they remain in their last position.

 

[dicko]

Boeing Evac checklist has them set to 40.

 

[OurMoney1]

Looks like another AA flight 331.

From what I understand the brakes on that bird didnt get a boost when they stretched the fuselage.

Is Guyana grooved? Anyone?

 

[cocknbull]

Looks like another AA flight 331.

From what I understand the brakes on that bird didnt get a boost when they stretched the fuselage.

Is Guyana grooved? Anyone?

It has been two years since I last flew there but as a recall no. It has some RNAV(GPS) and VOR approaches but no ILS as well. I think runway 6 has a PAPI with a lower than standard approach angle. Sorry don't carry charts anymore so I can't look it up.

 

[hawk996]

No slat or flaps down????

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

GEO is short, not grooved and has rubber reversion the whole length of it. Landing while it's raining becomes sporty....like February snow and ice.

Landing long would make it almost impossible to stop a large jet no matter what the flap setting was....and a 737 crosses the fence with widebody speeds.

 

[DieselDragRacer]

Yet another 737 breaking into pieces after an overrun.

 

[scoreboardII]

breaking exactly where they are supposed to, whats your point?

More intersting, why are the flaps up?

 

[MD11Drvr]

Is it possible the crew retracted them in an effort to increase weight on wheels after touchdown. Not that I am condoning such a practice but it seems strange for them to be retracted. What Vapp would that aircraft need in that configuration. I know in the MD-11 you would dang near a dry lake bed to stop it clean if you were heavy.

 

[dicko]

Is it possible the crew retracted them in an effort to increase weight on wheels after touchdown. Not that I am condoning such a practice but it seems strange for them to be retracted. What Vapp would that aircraft need in that configuration. I know in the MD-11 you would dang near a dry lake bed to stop it clean if you were heavy.

Funny. That crossed my mind as a scenario. Dumping the flaps for a short field landing is a technique if you're flying a C172, in the mountains of New Guinea. In a 737-8 you'd have to be a half wit to try it. The flaps would arrive at '0' after you departed from the runway ....

A guess for a clean Vapp would be 185-190 knots, depending on lots of stuff.

 

[OneBadLT123]

That aircraft was delivered new to Sun Country and was ship 810SY.

 

[thunderworm]

GEO is not a short runway. I flew a 737-800 into there for about a year. Nothing hard whatsoever. True there is no ILS because there doesn't need to be one. Its unfortunate, not having the flaps down doesn't mean they didn't do an after landing check or securing check which would call to raise the flaps which can be done on the electric hydraulic pumps. Remember that these pilots may not have had as much experience as pilots in the US have. Simple, unfathomable mistakes to us seem to be happening more and more in third world countries as their pilots move into the left seats.

 

[Hung Start]

Is it possible the crew retracted them in an effort to increase weight on wheels after touchdown. Not that I am condoning such a practice but it seems strange for them to be retracted. What Vapp would that aircraft need in that configuration. I know in the MD-11 you would dang near a dry lake bed to stop it clean if you were heavy.

Good grief!!!
That is just plain dumb. If you have the presence of mind to think of that (retracting the flaps after touchdown) while you are whistling down the runway,, you should have thought of a go-around minutes before.

Let's not be politically correct here. It is what it is.

Hung

 

[flythere]

Is it possible the crew retracted them in an effort to increase weight on wheels after touchdown. Not that I am condoning such a practice but it seems strange for them to be retracted. What Vapp would that aircraft need in that configuration. I know in the MD-11 you would dang near a dry lake bed to stop it clean if you were heavy.

That's the whole purpose of the speed brakes, destroy the lift over the wings upon touchdown, putting all the weight onto the mains for max braking effect.

Why would they run the after landing checklist and not stow the reversers? Not only that, but once that thing broke in two, I doubt they had any control over the flaps or motors, which leads me to suspect they landed that way, and that was the position the thing came to rest in!

 

[thunderworm]

That's the whole purpose of the speed brakes, destroy the lift over the wings upon touchdown, putting all the weight onto the mains for max braking effect.

Why would they run the after landing checklist and not stow the reversers? Not only that, but once that thing broke in two, I doubt they had any control over the flaps or motors, which leads me to suspect they landed that way, and that was the position the thing came to rest in!

Good point. They did probably land without the flaps, but the question is why? The only time I can think of for landing with flaps 0 is that they failed in the up position. I didn't see the picture was there any leading edge flaps down? Then you would be able to tell if it was a failure of the trailing flaps or if they simply forgot and then ignored the landing configuration warning horn the whole way down. I can hear it now on the CVR " will you please shut that horn off I am trying to land here". Hopefully the NTSB will have this wrapped up soon.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Avherald:

Georgetown Airport's fire commander told the investigators that firefighters observed the aircraft as it approached but touched down only about half way down the runway abeam the terminal building with about 3000 feet of runway remaining. They needed to douse engine #2 (right hand engine) which was emitting smoke after the aircraft came to a stop.

Aviation sources said, the aircraft touched down with flaps fully extended (40 degrees).

 

[MD11Drvr]

That's the whole purpose of the speed brakes, destroy the lift over the wings upon touchdown, putting all the weight onto the mains for max braking effect.

Why would they run the after landing checklist and not stow the reversers? Not only that, but once that thing broke in two, I doubt they had any control over the flaps or motors, which leads me to suspect they landed that way, and that was the position the thing came to rest in!

You know in 14000 hours and 4 Jet types I had never heard that.


It is referred to as speculation for a reason. Everyone just spitballing possibilities since no one will know until after the investigation. In my 20 years of aviation I have seen people do things in jets they learned in a 172 and thought it was just fine to do so. There would be no good reason to bring up the flaps like you would in a 172 but who knows maybe this crew did not know this was not appropriate or safe in a 737.

 

[flythere]

You know in 14000 hours and 4 Jet types I had never heard that..

Do Tell????