Career progression at Delta

[stlflyguy]

I'm sure it's been asked somewhere else, but what is the estimated time to Captain at Delta? I received the email to come interview and I'm not sure if I really want to if the time to Captain is too long. If I were in my late twenties, it might not be a factor. Fact is, I'm not and 40 is approaching.

Any info would be great.

Thanks.

stlflyguy

 

[Griswold]

I'm sure it's been asked somewhere else, but what is the estimated time to Captain at Delta? I received the email to come interview and I'm not sure if I really want to if the time to Captain is too long. If I were in my late twenties, it might not be a factor. Fact is, I'm not and 40 is approaching.

Any info would be great.

Thanks.

stlflyguy

I'd go to the interview and change you're attitude before you go. You will wake up one day in you're RJ and wish you were at Delta. You would have 25 years to give to Delta. I don't feel like doing the math but you will make alot more even if you never upgrade.

 

[stlflyguy]

Compare that to my TEN YEAR PAY that I'll be making when I'm recalled to AA. I didn't mention that before, so forgive me. Even so, it'd take me four years to reach the level of pay I'm at now.

Now can you see why I'm wondering about the progression?

stlflyguy

 

[MDPilot]

Plug MD-88 Capt in NYC has a late 99 hire date, ATL is about mid 97 hire.

 

[Griswold]

Compare that to my TEN YEAR PAY that I'll be making when I'm recalled to AA. I didn't mention that before, so forgive me. Even so, it'd take me four years to reach the level of pay I'm at now.

Now can you see why I'm wondering about the progression?

stlflyguy

You got a point, but I'd still go to the interview. Get on with Delta and then make your choice beteween Delta and AA. Either way you are at a major player in the industry. 25 years at a company is a long time. Try not to get caught up in the it will take me 4 years to get back. Look at the big picture (20-25 years) The longer you wait the the more years you give up. It's a great time to get on with Delta. They are hiring about 60-70 a month. They guy told me after the interview they are going to slow down just for late Nov. and I think all of Dec. and then pick back up full swing.

 

[aa73]

stlflyguy... how far out are you from recall? I ask because I firmly believe we will be through the whole furloughed list by fall/winter 2008 and hiring off the street in 2009. If that holds true, you will be back before the end of next year and pulling in about $108/hr (MD80) or even higher if you pull a 737/767/300 bid in recall class. Also, factor in the fact that you will upgrade under Supp CC (if you choose to do so) in a relatively shorter period of time than usual.


good luck.
73

 

[~~~^~~~]

Of course, do not forget Delta has a 6-7 year hiring gap. So another way of looking at this is that Delta has three and four year Captains on the MD88.

New York is unpopular. One of the new hires from early in 2007 looked through the advanced entitlement and said there were only 14 pilots with bids ahead of his for M88A in NYC. If (a big IF) Delta gets a dozen or so MD-90's it is possible a 2007 hire could be in the left seat inside of two years.

I can't seem to figure out if Delta is actually growing. There are announcements of new E-190 versions for DCI, but the Delta TOC keeps getting jets ready for lease returns. The E-190 does not have the range, but it will do a lot of what Delta's deferred 737-700 orders would accomplish.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[Truckdriver]

I was just hired (still in training) and there are currently 39 people senior to me who have a bid in for NYC M88 Captain. I know some people will change their bid when they know they can hold it, but compare that with over 200 senior to me bidding for ATL M88 Captain and you get the picture that not many want to go to NYC. I'd bet we'll see some of the early 07 hires holding it in 09 if they want to go to NYC.

 

[michael707767]

I can't seem to figure out if Delta is actually growing. There are announcements of new E-190 versions for DCI, but the Delta TOC keeps getting jets ready for lease returns. The E-190 does not have the range, but it will do a lot of what Delta's deferred 737-700 orders would accomplish.

there are 2-3 757s, a 767, and 3 88s that may be returned to the lessors. All have been previously announced, so nothing new here. Keep in mind during BK, some aircraft were returned, then the lessors found out they could not do better than what we were paying, so those airplanes came back.

10 757s are coming for sure, with the possibility of 5 more. 6 777s are on firm order as are 10 737-700s. No 737-700 orders have been deferred, though some 737-800 orders have been.

Aircraft will always be coming and going. The aircraft that are going are some of the oldest 757s and 88s. At some point its not worth the cost for all the maintenance requirements unless you get a very good lease deal.

For the record, the shifting of 170s to 175s at Republic is no big deal either. In fact they are only able to do this because the mainline fleet is growing. DCI is limited to 15 76 seaters in 07, with more beyond that based on mainline growth. The MEC is on top of this, they monitor the aircraft coming and going daily. I think our scope sucks, but I give them credit for the job they are doing keeping track of the contractual limits on RJs.

Long story short, Delta is growing. It is not, nor will it ever be, huge growth. But we are growing.

 

[~~~^~~~]

In fact they are only able to do this because the mainline fleet is growing. DCI is limited to 15 76 seaters in 07, with more beyond that based on mainline growth. The MEC is on top of this, they monitor the aircraft coming and going daily. I think our scope sucks, but I give them credit for the job they are doing keeping track of the contractual limits on RJs.

Long story short, Delta is growing. It is not, nor will it ever be, huge growth. But we are growing.

Thank you for the good information. With typical staffing those airplanes would require another 500 or so pilots.

So the DAL flying will remain at least 51%? Will it get higher than 51%?

From what little I know about a MD88, it burns twice the fuel as a 40/50 seat RJ but carries three times the revenue. Seems like MD90" would be even better. Wonder if the market will begin to swing in mainline's favor.

 

[viper548]

If you're making decent pay now, stay put 'til you get recalled.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

I was just hired (still in training) and there are currently 39 people senior to me who have a bid in for NYC M88 Captain. I know some people will change their bid when they know they can hold it, but compare that with over 200 senior to me bidding for ATL M88 Captain and you get the picture that not many want to go to NYC. I'd bet we'll see some of the early 07 hires holding it in 09 if they want to go to NYC.

Ok skippy...
You keep telling yourself that.....I guess optimism isn't a tested trait in the interview process, but naivity should be.

Keep on dreaming it but don't bank on it happening.......economy set to nosedive here shortly, flying slows down, Delta can add 'ORDERED' jets (RJ's), mainline gets adjusted and words like "headcount" and "rightsize" get tossed around like candy.....are retirements going to save the masses???....nope!! They are all gone.....check the future retirement lists......so where does that leave you??

Not sure, but you can bet that a guy 95 percent down on the list won't be a Captain!!

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Hey Fins....

Please tell your (impotent) buddies at the RJ defense coalition that fact above......about 88 vs. RJ economics...

I remember words flowing out on this forum that the RJ's were what was keeping Delta profitable...... I guess that you are right when Comair has a 14.56 CASM.....and no reservations office, or ticket jackets, or advertising budget.......

Nevermind, you are seeing the light now that you are on this side of the fence....

 

[michael707767]

So the DAL flying will remain at least 51%? Will it get higher than 51%?

don't know the answer to that, and I don't think there is any requirement that mainline does 51% or more of the flying.

 

[General Lee]

We have had 5 long years of negative growth, and things are starting to change. We are getting new or newer planes, and movement is occuring. We are expanding to more and more INTL destinations, which often require more crewmembers due to longer trips or multiple crews per plane (some Asian flights require 2 Captains and 2 FOs). We may be getting rid of a few older planes, but we are due to get more and use them in INTL roles, necessitating those new pilots. We will be expanding our domestic flying with additional MD90s from China (rumor pending), doing a lot more Asia with 6 new 777s next year alone (compared to our 8 that we have had for 7 years), and additional Europe flying with 10-15 757ERs. Add at least 10 737-700 doing interesting Caribbean stuff, plus a couple 738s to boot, and we will be training a lot of pilots. Most of our MD88s have had new leases renegotiated in BK (with huge savings of up to $200,000 per month), so most will be around for at least 5 more years. After that we will probably replace them with newer 737NGs. The options to fly domestically or Internationally will be there for all newhires eventually.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Old School]

I'm not sure that upgrading is the most important factor in chosing your team. You need to figure out where you will be happiest over a long period of time. Delta is on the upswing for sure, but if you live in STL, then AMR might make you happier over the long haul.

 

[Truckdriver]

Ok skippy...
You keep telling yourself that.....I guess optimism isn't a tested trait in the interview process, but naivity should be.

Keep on dreaming it but don't bank on it happening.......economy set to nosedive here shortly, flying slows down, Delta can add 'ORDERED' jets (RJ's), mainline gets adjusted and words like "headcount" and "rightsize" get tossed around like candy.....are retirements going to save the masses???....nope!! They are all gone.....check the future retirement lists......so where does that leave you??

Not sure, but you can bet that a guy 95 percent down on the list won't be a Captain!!

Take it easy there Lumberg. I didn't say it would happen I said I'd bet it would happen. I can't factor an economic downturn into what I'm looking at because I don't know if or when one will happen. If you have that info I'm sure you would be better off working on Wall Street than at Delta. Just because you weren't able to upgrade in under a decade doesn't mean guys getting hired right now won't. Getting hired during the beginning of a hiring wave has almost always led to the fastest upgrade times. I'll still bet we'll see upgrades in NYC go very junior in 2009. You may be right, but we'll just have to wait until 09 so we'll leave it at that.

 

[General Lee]

Take it easy there Lumberg. I didn't say it would happen I said I'd bet it would happen. I can't factor an economic downturn into what I'm looking at because I don't know if or when one will happen. If you have that info I'm sure you would be better off working on Wall Street than at Delta. Just because you weren't able to upgrade in under a decade doesn't mean guys getting hired right now won't. Getting hired during the beginning of a hiring wave has almost always led to the fastest upgrade times. I'll still bet we'll see upgrades in NYC go very junior in 2009. You may be right, but we'll just have to wait until 09 so we'll leave it at that.

When our economy takes a dive, the dollar does too. That is why it is good to diversify and have more INTL flights, due to the fact that foreigners have more buying power and will fill your flights from Europe etc to the US, and then back. When the dollar is high, more US folks go abroad.

Also, I don't think the FED will allow our economy to really go down the tube. Rate cuts are probably on the way, and things will settle down. Also, when stocks do go down, so do gas prices, which will actually help us out.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[stlflyguy]

stlflyguy... how far out are you from recall? I ask because I firmly believe we will be through the whole furloughed list by fall/winter 2008 and hiring off the street in 2009. If that holds true, you will be back before the end of next year and pulling in about $108/hr (MD80) or even higher if you pull a 737/767/300 bid in recall class. Also, factor in the fact that you will upgrade under Supp CC (if you choose to do so) in a relatively shorter period of time than usual.


good luck.
73

Supp CC doesn't help my seniority range any more than my $hitty system seniority number. Mainly because the people getting their Captain's seats back still have a lot of time to go.

The longevity is the thing keeping me from pulling the trigger for somewhere else.

stlflyguy

 

[DAL737FO]

I didn't think you guys got longevity for time on furlough at AA? I have a friend that was hired in early 01 and he said he would go back at second year pay.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Take it easy there Lumberg. I didn't say it would happen I said I'd bet it would happen. I can't factor an economic downturn into what I'm looking at because I don't know if or when one will happen. If you have that info I'm sure you would be better off working on Wall Street than at Delta. Just because you weren't able to upgrade in under a decade doesn't mean guys getting hired right now won't. Getting hired during the beginning of a hiring wave has almost always led to the fastest upgrade times. I'll still bet we'll see upgrades in NYC go very junior in 2009. You may be right, but we'll just have to wait until 09 so we'll leave it at that.

I will take your bet......and FYI, I'm not at a decade yet and that has nothing to do with the fact you go on this forum posting grandiose plans and I'm just handing you the BS flag.

People are asking legit questions who maybe have a choice in which airline to go to and you post a steaming pile of false dung........not to intentionally mislead, but it's misleading!!!

 

[FlyingSig]

I didn't think you guys got longevity for time on furlough at AA? I have a friend that was hired in early 01 and he said he would go back at second year pay.

That's because your friend was on 2nd year pay in 01... I'm guessing stlflyguy was a TWA F/O with 10 years senority who's currently a Captain at Eagle thanks to the flow back.

 

[aa73]

Supp CC doesn't help my seniority range any more than my $hitty system seniority number. Mainly because the people getting their Captain's seats back still have a lot of time to go.

The longevity is the thing keeping me from pulling the trigger for somewhere else.

stlflyguy

Well, that may be true, but unless you were hired at TWA after 1997 (the Magnus Alehulte trigger man), you still fall under Supp CC and could at least hold a line in STL right upon recall. Or if you don't get an STL slot, you could reinstate to it fairly quickly.

Regarding longevity, APA has always historically negotiated it after everyone was recalled. I think this will be the case once again.

 

[av8er2]

I talked to a Delta Capt. and he said maybe 15 years. As we all know in the next 10 or so there are many unpredictable events that will occur, some good, most not so good. Look at the last 10 or so years in the airlines, most are bad years.

The best bet for a stable future is a different career.

 

[737 Pylt]

The best bet for a stable future is a different career.

That is about the best advice anyone can give!
Can I get an AMEN!

737

 

[whymeworry?]

When our economy takes a dive, the dollar does too. That is why it is good to diversify and have more INTL flights, due to the fact that foreigners have more buying power and will fill your flights from Europe etc to the US, and then back. When the dollar is high, more US folks go abroad.

Also, I don't think the FED will allow our economy to really go down the tube. Rate cuts are probably on the way, and things will settle down. Also, when stocks do go down, so do gas prices, which will actually help us out.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Investment/ financial/ economic advice from the General. I've seen it all now.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

I talked to a Delta Capt. and he said maybe 15 years. As we all know in the next 10 or so there are many unpredictable events that will occur, some good, most not so good. Look at the last 10 or so years in the airlines, most are bad years.

The best bet for a stable future is a different career.

Great post.........that's TRUE advice....

Anybody got the number to that truck driving school??? Truckmasters, I think it is.......

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Investment/ financial/ economic advice from the General. I've seen it all now.

Take it easy on the General....

He told me to put my money on something stable like pets.com in 1999..... TIC

 

[Truckdriver]

Great post.........that's TRUE advice....

Anybody got the number to that truck driving school??? Truckmasters, I think it is.......

Nov 99 hires will be upgrading here in a few months. More like 8 years right now. That is about as TRUE as you get with the latest AE. With the international growth we have planned, it can only go down and when it goes about 2 more years down it will hit the 07 hires. IF the economy nosedives then that will change things, but IF it doesn't then we will have upgrades that go very junior just like CAL is experiencing. Try not to be so positive there LUMBERG. I don't really see what I've posted as steaming piles of crap. Just throwing out that a Captain says it will be 15 years when it is currently 8 years with lots of growth seems more like a steaming pile of crap to me if someone is trying to make a choice on a career move. It isn't that far from the Nov 99 hires to the 07 hires if you look at the list. And when we bridge that gap upgrade time will jump up by 6 years.

 

[Kenney G]

Had a Delta guy on the jumpseat the other day. He said there are only 500 or so above the age of 50. Almost no attrition for 15 years pending age 65. Delta would need a lot of new planes(not replacement) to upgrade anyone hired this year in the next 10 years.