Career Decisions

[johnny taliban]

I was hoping to get some opinions from willing folks out there in FLIGHTINFO LAND. I currently fly as a captain on a learjet and have 1800 JET PIC, 4400 JET, about 4800 TT, and a B737 type. Like many out there, I am hoping and waiting for a shot at SWA. My question is this, since I more than meet the mins for SWA, should I take a job with a Part 121 carrier such as Trans Meridian or some other 121 outfit that might be hiring soon. None of these companies seem to be "career oportunities", but they MIGHT make me more competitive down the road. Is there any reason to go and get 121 time if nobody is hiring? Also, I am concerned about taking a job that DOES NOT pay well (lowering the bar). Would this be a strike against me in the eyes of the SWA interviewers or any other carrier that might be hiring in the future? I kinda feel like Im stuck between a rock and a hard place! I would imagine that there are many folks out there in a similar situation so any advise would probably help others as well.

Thanks,
Johnny

 

[Swerpipe]

Continue to get PIC turbine

Hi Johnny,

While 1800 PIC turbine is certainly more than the minimum 1000 PIC turbine required to apply it may not be as competitive as you think compared to other pilots applying to SWA. I talked to a SWA chief pilot a few years ago and I posed a similar question... " I have the minimum PIC turbine time should I go get 121 experience?" The answer was NO. SWA doesn't care about SIC time. Continue to build your PIC time until you get called. I have 2100 PIC turbine and 500 Jet 3600 TT. I am not changing this job until at least I have 6000 TT then I'll make the next move.
I would continue building PIC Jet time, become a check airman, chief pilot or move on to a bigger Jet as a captain if you can. There are a lot of very highly qualified folks waiting in line for Southwest and focusing on your primary experience parameter (PIC turbine time) is of paramount importance. Also, the type of flying that you are doing is very valuable to a company like Southwest given the high focus on customer service, the variety of functions you are responsible for, flying to unfamiliar places all the time, etc..
Good luck to you and more importantly PATIENCE!!!! our time will come.

 

[miles otoole]

Johnny,

If I were you I'd get other opinions. While continuing to build PIC time is good, 121 time is generally looked on more favorably than corporate time. There's a happy medium somewhere above 1000 hours PIC in which returns are diminished ever so slightly as compared to "some" 121 experience. Certainly 1000 PIC hours won't make you very competitive, but from what I am hearing, 2000+ PIC with 121 experience even in the right seat (obviously where WN FOs start) is better than just corporate.
Now, as you know there is no guarantee that even if called for an interview, you'd be hired. Depending on your financial situation, you may or may not be able to live for long at the bottom of a 121 regional seniority list.
I am not recommending either course of action. I think in many respects, Swerpipe's advice is sage. I have just seen and heard a few times that those with some 121 regional time are "slightly" more competetive with other things being more or less equal.
I am not sure what I would do in this case either. Good luck.

 

[SWA GUY]

Johnny T,

I think you ought to stay right where you are. You are commanding a jet and proving you are good at it. The environment you are working in is similar to 121, but I think your job is more difficult in that you do not have the support crew available to you as does a 121 CA.

WN hires folks from all realms of avaiation, and there are a ton of corporate guys here that never got within 50 yards of a commercial airliner.

Hang in there and keep proving you are making the good PIC decisions.

I can't imagine WN saying to you, "Well we like the fact that you have x,xxx turbine PIC, but if you just had some SIC in an airbus we'd hire you".

HC

 

[BRA]

Another thing to think about...which i know that i do....is where would you rather be if more attacks happened on US soil during the election this fall? Bottom of someones seniority list? Or where you are now as a captain? I don't think we are distanced enough from sept 11, to forget about that.

 

[farmboy]

swerpipe and swaguy are right!! stay right where you are and build PIC...SIC ONLY adds to your total time....take a look at all the old apps and current apps from the majors..all weight turbine pic the heaviest!! do not move to sic position unless it will be for less than a year and it's in a big airplane....farmboy...

 

[Clyde]

I was hoping to get some opinions from willing folks out there in FLIGHTINFO LAND. I currently fly as a captain on a learjet and have 1800 JET PIC, 4400 JET, about 4800 TT, and a B737 type. Like many out there, I am hoping and waiting for a shot at SWA. My question is this, since I more than meet the mins for SWA, should I take a job with a Part 121 carrier such as Trans Meridian or some other 121 outfit that might be hiring soon. None of these companies seem to be "career oportunities", but they MIGHT make me more competitive down the road. Is there any reason to go and get 121 time if nobody is hiring? Also, I am concerned about taking a job that DOES NOT pay well (lowering the bar). Would this be a strike against me in the eyes of the SWA interviewers or any other carrier that might be hiring in the future? I kinda feel like Im stuck between a rock and a hard place! I would imagine that there are many folks out there in a similar situation so any advise would probably help others as well.

Thanks,
Johnny

Hi Johnny,
Just my $0.02, so please feel free to take it or leave it.

Continuing to build PIC time is important, especially if it's jet. Judging by your numbers, you have at least the current published minimums for most carriers. I would ask the following questions though:

- If I were to get "stuck", would my current position be a job where I would could safely, economically, and happily finish out my career?

If the answer is yes, than I don't see a reason why you should leave.

- Are there any opportunities to advance with my current position?

i.e., check airman, flight management, etc. These opportunities not only enhance your resume, but could possibly earn you more salary.

- If I decide to move to another company, can I maintain the same or near the same quality of life.

Most of us sacrifice some quality of life when moving up the ranks, but I think one should weigh the sacrifices with the benefits of the new position.

- How secure is this new position?

Going to Brand X to fly a 757 SIC is tempting. But, what are the odds this positon will be here 6 months from now compared to your current position being here 6 months from now? It is possible one could shoot him/herself in the foot by leaving one job in pursuit of another.

Finally, define what it is your ultimate goal is and do what you feel is necessary you have to do in order to obtain it. For example, you mentioned SWA. I would post and listen to the guys on this board who are SWA pilots and I would take their advice only with regards to SWA. Regarding all carriers, keep your hours current and plentiful and keep your records clean.

And, one very, very, very, important point. DO NOT LISTEN TO ANYTHING, AND I MEAN ANYTHING, that Kit Darby tells you.

 

[ukipilot]

Johnny,

If I were you I'd get other opinions. While continuing to build PIC time is good, 121 time is generally looked on more favorably than corporate time. There's a happy medium somewhere above 1000 hours PIC in which returns are diminished ever so slightly as compared to "some" 121 experience. Certainly 1000 PIC hours won't make you very competitive, but from what I am hearing, 2000+ PIC with 121 experience even in the right seat (obviously where WN FOs start) is better than just corporate.
Now, as you know there is no guarantee that even if called for an interview, you'd be hired. Depending on your financial situation, you may or may not be able to live for long at the bottom of a 121 regional seniority list.
I am not recommending either course of action. I think in many respects, Swerpipe's advice is sage. I have just seen and heard a few times that those with some 121 regional time are "slightly" more competetive with other things being more or less equal.
I am not sure what I would do in this case either. Good luck.

Totally FALSE!!

I guess you forgot that military pilots have no Part 121 experience? airlines hire military pilots up the wazu!, I was a military pilot over 11 years ago, and yes I was hired by a cargo operator, but when I was laid off, I have flown corporate since then till Delta hired me in 01, then when I was laid off from DAL I got a BBJ job, all of my time after the military is corporate, except for a few 100 hours at the cargo operator, and I have been called by SWA and Frontier, except for airtran, airlines can care less about 121 time, experience is more important. When I interviewed at DAL, 7 of the 12 candidates all had corporate experience, 4 came from the fractionals, and the DAL interviewers stated that they love corporate guys because of our variety of flying never flying to the same airports and the vast amounts of instrument time, they asked more about my corpoarte experience than my military

So, keep your LRJET pic job, switching from a job that builds pic jet time to a sic job will raise questions

 

[miles otoole]

Totally FALSE!!

I guess you forgot that military pilots have no Part 121 experience? airlines hire military pilots up the wazu!, I was a military pilot over 11 years ago, and yes I was hired by a cargo operator, but when I was laid off, I have flown corporate since then till Delta hired me in 01, then when I was laid off from DAL I got a BBJ job, all of my time after the military is corporate, except for a few 100 hours at the cargo operator, and I have been called by SWA and Frontier, except for airtran, airlines can care less about 121 time, experience is more important. When I interviewed at DAL, 7 of the 12 candidates all had corporate experience, 4 came from the fractionals, and the DAL interviewers stated that they love corporate guys because of our variety of flying never flying to the same airports and the vast amounts of instrument time, they asked more about my corpoarte experience than my military

So, keep your LRJET pic job, switching from a job that builds pic jet time to a sic job will raise questions

Since when were we discussing military time?
Maybe I missed something, but I believe he/she isn't trying to get a job with DAL. Read the entire post instead of bits and pieces. I was a military pilot over 4 years ago, BTW (in other words, so what?) I guess what comes out of the hiring department at WN doesn't really matter to you. I am simply talking about ever so slightly changing "general trends" at WN only and "all things being equal competitiveness." Here, the military folks don't compete with non-military as far as interviews and hiring is concerned.
Johnny needs to at least look at all options much like our former AWA Captain WN newhire did.
Also, Johnny, have you given consideration to a regional with a less than 6 month/Street CA upgrade time? They are out there.

 

[ukipilot]

You did miss something, you did not read my entire post, all I said is that DAL liked corporate guys, I have friends that said the same thing that were hired at NW, and CO, you made a statement that he needs 121 time to be competitive, you are wrong, if you read my post, I was called up by Southwest and Frontier, and almost all of my time is corporate, 2 friends of mine who where never in the military and had all corporate time no 121 time at all were hired by southwest in fact 1 of them started class on aug2, they told me that southwest likes corporate pilots, and in 1 of their interview groups 5 were corporate, in my other friends group 4 were all corporate, so if you look at what other pilots are posting you will see that the vast majority are telling this guy to keep his jet job.


As stated before, if he quits his jet capt. job for a sic job, it could raise questions.

 

[dink]

YEA, what Clyde said!

all things equal 121 time prob a little better, but not as a copilot. you are qualifed for the airlines now, but should we have another 911 do you want to be on the bottom at a weak company?

Rather than looking for another job that will only be a steping stone for your dream job. I would spend that time networking. Keep in touch with all your contacts. At this point in your carrer it will be who you know rather than what you know..... In 2000 i met a Continental Pilot while at the doc for my new medical. Six months later i had an intervew. your current FO might be your next chief pilot..... who knows...

Good luck.

 

[johnny taliban]

Staying put

Thanks for all the responses. I beleive that I will just continue on the course that I am currently on (which is what I was hoping to hear). It just doesnt make sense to take a paycut and go to work for a regional or some questionable 121 outfit unless there is a least a quick upgrade which we all know is not gonna happen in todays environment.

once again,thanks
johnny

 

[miles otoole]

Thanks for all the responses. I beleive that I will just continue on the course that I am currently on (which is what I was hoping to hear). It just doesnt make sense to take a paycut and go to work for a regional or some questionable 121 outfit unless there is a least a quick upgrade which we all know is not gonna happen in todays environment.

once again,thanks
johnny

Doesn't CHQ have a 1 year upgrade, Mesa have a 3 month 1900/DHC-8 upgrade?
There are probably more. If that's the case, you be over 40k/yr in under 6 months.
I'd hate to think you are making or not making certain career decisions based on 5 posts from an anonymous web site.
If I were you and you want to work for WN, I'd at the very least ask some of the folks at Higher Power.