Career Decision (survey pilot or ????)

[PilotOnTheRise]

My buddy was complaining about making 50K a year right outta school as a software writer. Thats huge cash to me. I guess people won't be satisfied as long as someone out there is making more money.

Exactly! "The grass is always greener", as they say. I know people working in many different career fields who's salaries are half of that $135K, and they are probably not going to make much more. I sometimes can't believe the posts I read on these boards from pilots complaining about pay. I've seen posts of regional FO's in their 2nd and 3rd year making $40K/year, some more. That is what you would expect to make in most any career field starting out. That is a good salary for a young, single person just starting out. Then I read of regional captains in their 4th, 5th or 6th year making $70K-$80K, and complaining about that. They are making equivelent to what people I know are making in many other career fields, but in half the time, and their (the pilots) salary has still not topped off. Not to mention a move to the majors at some point, where it goes up further. But, even then when they are making $135K, it is still not enough. What exactly do pilots think they should be making?

 

[WhiteCloud]

What exactly do pilots think they should be making?

Loaded question but I'll bite. In my perfect world virtual airline Captains of large jets would earn around $150 and FO's around 75K regardless of aircraft type. Regional CA $75K and FO 35K. Never a poverty wage. Have the schedules and routes drive the bidding. That's good pay in anybody's book. All power to those who earn more. I've always felt the top salaries (again..all power to you) are way too high and the bottom is way too low. I imagine there are some down sides to this idea too....but this is just talk and I'm never going to try to run an airline.

 

[PilotOnTheRise]

Loaded question but I'll bite. In my perfect world virtual airline Captains of large jets would earn around $150 and FO's around 75K regardless of aircraft type. Regional CA $75K and FO 35K. Never a poverty wage. Have the schedules and routes drive the bidding. That's good pay in anybody's book. All power to those who earn more. I've always felt the top salaries (again..all power to you) are way too high and the bottom is way too low. I imagine there are some down sides to this idea too....but this is just talk and I'm never going to try to run an airline.

I think that sounds very reasonable, and I would agree with that. What I mean by that question, "What exactly do you pilots think they should be making?", is that many pilots seem very unhappy, regardless of their salary. Whether it be $40K, $70K, or $150K, it always seem to "not be enough". Sometimes I wonder just how much they have to be making for it to be "enough".

I think your proposed salaries would be perfect, but overall, even now they are around your payscale, just not flat rate, which I assume is what you propose. Some make a little more, some a little less, but overall pilot pay is no less than what you'd expect to make in most other career fields, and the potential is for more than you'd make in most other career fields. I think most pilots would have a hard time expressing to others that they are underpaid, and have the "others" agree. Plenty of people buy homes, raise families, and live a very comfortable lifestyle off of $70K salaries. I find it hard to understand why some pilots seem to not be able to, especially when the salary goes even further, and is six figures. Complaining about a $135K salary, and working 220 days a year, to me, is hard to understand. Most people are working 260+ days a year, and on top of that, make half or not even half that.

Again, the grass is always greener, and everybody knows someone, who knows someone, who knows someone who got a starting salary of $80K right out of school, or is 25, making $200K, and working 5 days a year. Those kinds of people are far and few between. There is always someone making more than you, but if you go into a career field or job with too high of expectations as far as salary, QOL, etc., are concerned, you will always be disappointed and miserable, regardless of whether you are flying planes, sitting at a desk, building houses, etc.

 

[Sticky]

Speaking of Survey companies does anyone know about the one at the PNE (northeast philly) airport?

Any info would be helpful.

Thanks

Think I've heard of them.... PM me.

 

[WhiteCloud]

Complaining about a $135K salary, and working 220 days a year, to me, is hard to understand. Most people are working 260+ days a year, and on top of that, make half or not even half that.

Remember than these days you're referring to are usually 24 hour days for a pilot and not they typical 8 hour day. A pilot flying a typical 80-85 hour line will be away from base roughly 300 hours or roughly 70 hours a week. That's a lot of time to spend on the companies behalf. When you're away from home on company business you're not really free to do what you want to with your time off. I don't think the bitching is as much about the money as it is the quality of life and the irregular nature of schedules and delays or changes. As we are seeing the companies that are continuing to do well (like SWA) have a sincere corporate concern for their employees welfare and not just a bunch of fluff like the famous Delta "aviation family" was. Anyway, flying jobs have a lot of unique demands that most people who work a regular job (for half the money?) would not tolerate.

 

[hoover]

I'd tell that airline recruiter to go screw himself. Why would a pilot looking to secure his and/or his families future financially be a "step" backwards? That is a prefect example of whats wrong with the airline career path.

Yeah that will impress the airline recruiter even more than stepping back to a piston twin.

Remember, the original question was: Will taking this job negatively affect my chances of getting hired by a major or large corporation? The answer is yes, at least as far as getting hired with a major goes.

 

[HowlinMadMurdoc]

PilotOnTheRise,

It's admirable you have enthusiasm for being an airline pilot. However, and with all due respect, you're on the outside looking in. WhiteCloud pretty much nailed it and what he said should be respected.

Being gone from home 300+ hours a month, working what seems to be only 4-day trips, never knowing your work schedule more than a month in advance, constantly eating out, and spending glorious overnights in places such as DSM or MLI or BumFrickWherever is cool when you first start. After doing it for more than a year, you'll find it becomes tedious and boring. Not to mention, you'll really start becoming homesick for your own bed and life.

There are far important things in life than flying. Someday, you'll realize that $150k to be a professional pilot is NOT worth it when you have NO QOL. And I'm quite confident that as the industry continues to disintegrate, you'll have to work and fly twice as much to get that $150k.

For me and many others, family and QOL far outweigh the one (and ONLY) positive aspect of flying - the flying part.

I'd rather make $75k, sleep in my own bed everynight, and have great QOL.

Someday soon, being an airline pilot will be as enjoyable as being an over-the-road truck driver.

Good luck in your career.

HMM

 

[surveypilot]

A Day in the Life of a Survey Pilot

For those of you that are contemplating working in the aerial survey industry, let me provide a small summary of what the job is like. For some it is the perfect job, many others however would despise this type of work. Aerial survey companies fly everything from Helio Couriers to Gulfstream's. However, the bulk of the industry flies airplanes like the C206, Piper Aztec, Piper Navajo, and several varieties of twin Cessnas. These airplanes are often extensively modified with large holes in the belly, extra fuel tanks, etc. The average company has 2-4 airplanes and the flight crews are composed of one pilot and one photographer (or equipment operator if doing some other type of survey work.) The flying is 95% VFR, and usually involves maximum endurance flights, often followed by a quick turn and another leg. The important thing to know is that this flying is pretty demanding (like flying several hours of continuous ILS's a day) when it happens. The problem is that you are incredibly dependant on the right weather conditions to be able to fly the missions. If you are used to a most other types of flying, then you will get incredibly frustrated with having to sit around for days waiting on the right weather. I have left home many times for a two day job and come home 2 weeks later. I have spent a month in one location waiting to get 6 hours of work done. Some companies mange this well with rotational schedules for flight crews. Some companies claim that they have rotational schedules, but when the reality of the cost of rotating crews sets in they will leave the crews in the field. For this reason most of these companies have a high turnover rate.

Will all that said, I still loved the survey flying that I did. However, the continuous time on the road can takes its toll on the family. When I had my second child, I said that was enough and found other employment.

I don't pretend to be an expert on the industry, but I do have experience with several companies and don't mind the PM's if you have specific questions on a company

 

[PilotOnTheRise]

PilotOnTheRise,

It's admirable you have enthusiasm for being an airline pilot. However, and with all due respect, you're on the outside looking in. WhiteCloud pretty much nailed it and what he said should be respected.

Being gone from home 300+ hours a month, working what seems to be only 4-day trips, never knowing your work schedule more than a month in advance, constantly eating out, and spending glorious overnights in places such as DSM or MLI or BumFrickWherever is cool when you first start. After doing it for more than a year, you'll find it becomes tedious and boring. Not to mention, you'll really start becoming homesick for your own bed and life.

There are far important things in life than flying. Someday, you'll realize that $150k to be a professional pilot is NOT worth it when you have NO QOL. And I'm quite confident that as the industry continues to disintegrate, you'll have to work and fly twice as much to get that $150k.

For me and many others, family and QOL far outweigh the one (and ONLY) positive aspect of flying - the flying part.

I'd rather make $75k, sleep in my own bed everynight, and have great QOL.

Someday soon, being an airline pilot will be as enjoyable as being an over-the-road truck driver.

Good luck in your career.

HMM

I understand you 100%. I do realize that I am looking from the outside. I do realize that the job of professional pilot, whether it be with the airlines, corporate, etc., have different demands than a typical 9-5 job.

I am not one of these, "I've got to eventually fly a 747." guys. I would fly a 152 the rest of my life if the pay, and QOL is good. To me, its all about the flying, not the airplane. Flying is all I have ever wanted to do, and it is all I can imagine myself doing. I don't want to sit behind a desk doing reports 8-9 hours a day. With the state of the industry as it is now, and the bleak attitude many on these boards seem to have, it is amazing that I want to be a pilot more than ever.

When I do enter into the industry, hopefully in a few years, and I begin experiencing the QOL, soon I may realize that time away from family is much more important than a $150K salary, and that no salary will be enough to compare to that time with family. I understand a pilots complaint about time away from family. I understand anybody's complaint about that. I just don't understand a pilot specifically complaining about pay. Professional pilots, in my eyes, are paid well, and very few industries offer the salary opportunities that professional pilots have.

I tend to be more of an optimist. I believe the airline industry will improve. It will take time, and it will not happen overnight, obviously, but the airline industry has seen times like these before. I do not believe this industry is dead, and I think there will always be the salary opportunities that exist today.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Amen to this pilotyip!!

I have a hard time understanding why pilots seem to think they are underpaid, and can complain about a $135K/year salary. Most people will be lucky to make half that at some point in their career. Go up to your average person and tell them you make $135K/year and are underpaid, and see if they have any sympathy for you. They will have none! Try telling a nurse, teacher, policemen, firement, etc., that you make $135K/year and are underpaid, and see if they have any sympathy. They make 1/3 of that, and will probably never make much more.

Except for certain specialty career fields, such as doctors, lawyers, and some others, very few career fields offer you the opportunity to make that kind of money. In most career fields, salaries top off around the $70K-$80K/ year range, for some maybe a little higher. The problem is not that pilots are underpaid, its that they have too high of expectations of what they should be making. Even regional pilots make equivelent to, and in some cases more than what you would expect to make in other career fields, especially starting out. I think this "underpaid" issue is being carried a little to far. I even read a post the other day on a thread in one of these boards where someone complained about the fact that we are entering into a day and age where wide-body captains make $175/hour. Assuming a 75 hour minimum guarantee, which seems to be the average for most airlines, that is atleast $158K/year. Yeah, I have sympathy for that person! I'll take $135K/year to sit in a "cramped" cockpit 220 days a year and fly airplanes for a living anyday over making $70K/ year to sit in a cramped office or cubicle doing reports 260 days out of the year.

Where do you live pal?

teachers around me START at 55K minimum. Thats for working part time (face it, 7am-130pm, summers off is part time) and even at 55K what are you doing? you arent buying a house and you arent raising a family...and dont tell me about living in Kansas or something - lets talk where the jobs are...nurses? how much do you think and RN makes today? most are easy 6 figures. Where do you live?

You have 50hrs flight time, you will gladly accept that shiny RJ job for 18K because, dear god, its a jet!! RJ pilots aren't underpaid? What do you cal 20K a year??? sounds like a liveable wage huh?

Wait until you are mid 30s and still living with your mom or in a trailer park 6 mins from KYIP due to the 12 min show policy and tell me how stellar pilots have it making ALL THIS MONEY.

Very good flying jobs are becoming extremely rare, and this is no doubt partially due to your type of attitude.

"Pilot on the rise"....where you rising to? food stamps?

wake up.

Let us know, Mr Optomist, when you find that 152 job that keeps you home every night and has good QOL..