Career Decision (survey pilot or ????)

[pilotyip]

My sister is a teacher in the Detroit area, she makes $72K. 30 years masters plus

 

[Photoflight]

Yah well my friend started a business when he was 19 and now at 27 pulls in nearly 350K a year.
My sister is in pharmacutical sales and started at 60K a year with a free car.
One of my friends is an engineer and his starting salary is 55K.
Another friend pulls in a little over 60 a year tax free and works M-TH 12-7.

Its fairly disheartening to look to your future and see yourself working two jobs for the next couple of years.

 

[WhiteCloud]

Yah well my friend started a business when he was 19 and now at 27 pulls in nearly 350K a year.
My sister is in pharmacutical sales and started at 60K a year with a free car.
One of my friends is an engineer and his starting salary is 55K.
Another friend pulls in a little over 60 a year tax free and works M-TH 12-7.

Its fairly disheartening to look to your future and see yourself working two jobs for the next couple of years.

I understand the frustration. Pilots have an important job with a huge responsibility for lives and assets. We should make good money at all levels of the profession. Unfortunately, we don't. Personally I'd be miserable driving around in my "free" car selling pills, sitting in an engineering cubicle, or doing whatever the M-F 12-7 guy (late night TV ad thing?) does because I could care less about that stuff. We're lucky to be having this conversation though. In other areas of the world we'd be talking about how hard it is to find enough mud and grass for our huts or digging up some worm free rice to survive another year. We have a lot to be thankful for.

 

[Capt. JD]

My Father is an Orthopedic Surgeon: 800-600K a year, New Jersey
My Mother is a Corp Lawyer: 80-90K a year, New Jersey

Why are we listing loved ones pay?

 

[Photoflight]

I understand the frustration. Pilots have an important job with a huge responsibility for lives and assets. We should make good money at all levels of the profession. Unfortunately, we don't. Personally I'd be miserable driving around in my "free" car selling pills, sitting in an engineering cubicle, or doing whatever the M-F 12-7 guy (late night TV ad thing?) does because I could care less about that stuff.

Actually its noon to 7 p.m.

I'd agree with you on most points. With all those jobs...the actual job part sucks but the pay is good. With flying...it seems to be the opposite. I love the work but hate the business.

 

[Capt. JD]

Solid summary on Aerial Survey!

For those of you that are contemplating working in the aerial survey industry, let me provide a small summary of what the job is like. For some it is the perfect job, many others however would despise this type of work. Aerial survey companies fly everything from Helio Couriers to Gulfstream's. However, the bulk of the industry flies airplanes like the C206, Piper Aztec, Piper Navajo, and several varieties of twin Cessnas. These airplanes are often extensively modified with large holes in the belly, extra fuel tanks, etc. The average company has 2-4 airplanes and the flight crews are composed of one pilot and one photographer (or equipment operator if doing some other type of survey work.) The flying is 95% VFR, and usually involves maximum endurance flights, often followed by a quick turn and another leg. The important thing to know is that this flying is pretty demanding (like flying several hours of continuous ILS's a day) when it happens. The problem is that you are incredibly dependant on the right weather conditions to be able to fly the missions. If you are used to a most other types of flying, then you will get incredibly frustrated with having to sit around for days waiting on the right weather. I have left home many times for a two day job and come home 2 weeks later. I have spent a month in one location waiting to get 6 hours of work done. Some companies mange this well with rotational schedules for flight crews. Some companies claim that they have rotational schedules, but when the reality of the cost of rotating crews sets in they will leave the crews in the field. For this reason most of these companies have a high turnover rate.

Will all that said, I still loved the survey flying that I did. However, the continuous time on the road can takes its toll on the family. When I had my second child, I said that was enough and found other employment.

I don't pretend to be an expert on the industry, but I do have experience with several companies and don't mind the PM's if you have specific questions on a company

I flew survey for 2 years. I loved it! Gave me good stick & rudder skills. I got to fly allot of ferry flights IFR @ night in upstate NY during the winter. But at the end of the day I did it as an alternative to being a CFI & instructing to get my FAR prt 135 IFR mins...... working 24/7 with no schedule gets old plus I love flying approaches to mins!

 

[LearLove]

"One of my friends is an engineer and his starting salary is 55K."

I doubt that unless it was pre 911 and a consulting job in NY city with one of the big firms. These days they are not tossing $$ at engineers out of college like they used to, even the EE guys.

Now within 5 years your friend could make that as a traditional engineer easily and go on to 6 figure range by his/her early 30's if he/she gets an MBA, but getting the MBA means leaving the "fun engineering" (testing, design, lab ect.) and doing the management track.

The average ME, EE, CE, ChemE, IE with a BS is going to start between 30-40K but if they are worth their salt (read design crap that makes the company money) they will move up to the 60K range quick then level off until they either get a MS/PHD (and stay on the tech side) or like I said get an MBA and do the mgmnt thing.

 

[Photoflight]

"One of my friends is an engineer and his starting salary is 55K."

I doubt that unless it was pre 911 and a consulting job in NY city with one of the big firms. These days they are not tossing $$ at engineers out of college like they used to, even the EE guys.

Now within 5 years your friend could make that as a traditional engineer easily and go on to 6 figure range by his/her early 30's if he/she gets an MBA, but getting the MBA means leaving the "fun engineering" (testing, design, lab ect.) and doing the management track.

The average ME, EE, CE, ChemE, IE with a BS is going to start between 30-40K but if they are worth their salt (read design crap that makes the company money) they will move up to the 60K range quick then level off until they either get a MS/PHD (and stay on the tech side) or like I said get an MBA and do the mgmnt thing.

Bell Helicopter...Dallas TX. 55K his first year with a BS. He's 23.

 

[PilotOnTheRise]

The average starting salary coming out of college today, is about $40K/year to $45K/year, with Chemical Engineering being the highest, at about $54K/year, and liberal arts being the lowest, at about $30K/year.

Certain people are lucky enough to get salary offers higher than those, some get offers lower than those. Those are just average.

The career fields you all mentioned, including engineering, are some of the "specialty" career fields which usually see higher salaries to start. My sister, for example, is majoring in pharmacy. Starting salaries for pharmacist, because they are in extreme demand, are ranging from $60K/year and higher. Pharmacists, however, will have their salary top off, usually, around $80K/year to maybe $90K/year. Higher starting salaries usually mean that the salary will not go up much later on. This is usually the case when a job is in high demand.

Regional FOs start with salaries about $20K/year. This way below the $40K/year to $45K/year for average of people starting in other career fields. However, there is a reason why regional FOs start with such low salaries, and it is the same reason a UPS pilot will start making $27/hour, and a CAL pilot will start at about $30/hour. Second year FO pay, however, goes up, in some cases drastically. Most 2nd-3rd year FOs I know, and have seen on this board, make on average, it seems, about $40K/year, some less, some more. I even know one regional FO who make about $50K his second year. That is a salary equal to starting salaries in most other fields. Of course, this varies per airline, just as it varies per company that someone may work for after college. This is why some make more, and some less.

But, most people, in most career fields will have their salary top off, at most, around $80K/year, and many less than that. A pilot, however, even if they stay with a regional will make that, and more, eventually. A move to the majors definately equals more. So, when you look at the big picture, overall, pilot salaries, depending on the airline, are not much different than people in other career fields, but pilots have the potential to make more than people in other career fields.

I agree with what one poster said. Sure I, or any of us could try to open our own business and make $350K/year. Or become a pharmacist, or chemical engineer and get a starting salary of $55K/year. But, I don't want to do any of those other careers. I want to fly. You can make a good living as a pilot, it just takes time, basically, like any career. It helps when the industry is in a better state than it is now, but although it will take time, I believe things will improve. So, if you can, hang in there, and be thankful you have a job. Remember, the job market is not great for many industries right now. I know people who have been laid off from various fields. Things will correct themselves, it just takes time.

 

[brvopilot]

UPDATE:

I GOT THE JOB!!!

After 3 more interviews (including a flight) they offered me the job. Start in two weeks. Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and advice.

 

[Sticky]

Glad to hear! Look forward to seeing you guys during NAIP 2006!

 

[hindsight2020]

Originally Posted by Photoflight
"One of my friends is an engineer and his starting salary is 55K."


I doubt that unless it was pre 911 and a consulting job in NY city with one of the big firms. These days they are not tossing $$ at engineers out of college like they used to, even the EE guys.

Now within 5 years your friend could make that as a traditional engineer easily and go on to 6 figure range by his/her early 30's if he/she gets an MBA, but getting the MBA means leaving the "fun engineering" (testing, design, lab ect.) and doing the management track.

The average ME, EE, CE, ChemE, IE with a BS is going to start between 30-40K but if they are worth their salt (read design crap that makes the company money) they will move up to the 60K range quick then level off until they either get a MS/PHD (and stay on the tech side) or like I said get an MBA and do the mgmnt thing.

Bell Helicopter...Dallas TX. 55K his first year with a BS. He's 23.

I concur with LearLove. Your 23 y/o buddy is the minority. I too know a kid, works for Gulfstream in Savannah, GA, makes yep you guessed it 55K. He has a Master's though.

The ironic thing is that all these kids get burned out of the so-called "fun engineering". IF they are lucky and the company doesn't downsize, which happens in 18-24 month cycles in the defense sector, he'll be griping he ain't making any more than the same 55K he started out with 2 years before, and he's wanting out of the PC terminal and do away with all the MATLAB debugging and TPS report-writing. So, there is a LONG LINE of junior engineers claiming their "entitlement" and pulling the night shift at MBA school, to hopefully bid the managerial position at the department.

What REALLY happens is that they get tied down to the area (mortgage and wife and kids...after all, 55K starting out makes you feel rich LOL) and then they get downsized and have to suffer the "indignity"of applying to an engineering job that is NOT defense, so he goes from re-designing the door handle (cause they don't even get the forefront projects) on that Bell Helicopter to re-designing the printer toner on your garden-variety inkjet printer...

And as for the QOL, not that great either, you take that f$cking job home every night, especially when production phase deadline nears, too much brain-f%cking (not enough said about how mind-numbing it is) work for 55K and they know it.

Moral of the story? It is a sad state we live in where our leaders insist that the world is flattening and they swear that's a good thing, and that vocational happiness and financial solvency are mutually exclusive...