Career Copilot?

[Birdstrike]

Is there anything intrinsically wrong with being content to be a career copilot? Can an FO decline upgrade to left seat training? Is it grounds for any action by the company? If asked and declared during an interview, would you hire a pilot who candidly stated he wanted to be the finest FO in the business but did not want a Captain's responsibility?

 

[Dep676]

Not me

Why wouldn't you want the left seat. The pay is going to be better. I would think that this person would have doubts about his/her abilities if they made a comment like that.

Just my .02

 

[CF34-3B1]

Probably not the thing to say during an interview. Most, if not all airlines hire potential Captains.

Having said that, once you HAVE the job, if you choose to stay in the right seat for QOL issues, that's certainly your choice.

If you have no aspirations to move on to a major, and don't need the $, you can certainly stay in the right seat and enjoy your seniority. But I probably would't tell the interviewer that was your plan.

Some airlines (mostly majors) do have an "Up or Out" policy that dictates pilots must upgrade within a certain time of being able to hold it seniority wise, but I don't know of any regionals that do.

 

[Wasted]

I know of a few people here who have plenty of seniority to hold captain but continue bidding FO mainly for QOL reasons. What you bid on each bid is your business, and it is nothing that has to be declared during an interview. But be prepared for quizzical looks and questions when you fly with captains who are junior to you when the time comes. But I would think that if you harbor some kind of fear of or lack of desire of being the guy in the left seat, then perhaps aviation is not suited for you and maybe you should seek some kind of counseling to confront the underlying reasons for wanting to be a "career FO."

 

[Deerkiller]

Definitely wouldn't be the first person to take that route. I've actually heard of people retiring at a regional as a FO. They had the seniority but just chose QOL, I guess. I agree, though, don't make this known in an interview.

 

[sf3boy]

Birdstrike,
Career FO's is the only option at Mesaba Airlines. We are currently accepting resumes from qualified individuals who have no desire for career progression or an increase in earning potential. Mesaba only hires pilots that can take charge of all situations while the "captain" is getting his mocha latte crap, talking on his mobile and jumps in his seat 73 seconds before pushback. Then of course you get to listen to how "When you upgrade, you'll want to find a captain you respect and get his advise on all aspects of flying as an airline captain." I love that talk. Especially from the ass wipes that were hired a whole 5 months before you were.
For anyone that wants to be a career FO, you're a better man than me. I'm getting kinda tired of being a career FO, myself.

 

[Clyde]

Is there anything intrinsically wrong with being content to be a career copilot? Can an FO decline upgrade to left seat training? Is it grounds for any action by the company? If asked and declared during an interview, would you hire a pilot who candidly stated he wanted to be the finest FO in the business but did not want a Captain's responsibility?

Birdstrike,

Overall, I would say no. It is a personal decision and there is no right or wrong answer.

If one is content, happy with the pay, and the quality of life is greater than one would have in the left seat, one could stay there until retirement.

However, I will add this. The main motivation for me to upgrade is monetarily. Not so much the pay in salary, but retirement and disability. Part of my retirement is predicated on years of service and what my salary was. This difference could be pretty substantial if I don't upgrade. Also, what if my medical got suspended? Currently, I would receive a percentage of my current salary. As a Captain, that number would be substantially larger than as an F/O in the event something happened. So, from those reasons, that is why I would take the upgrade.

 

[Russ]

No, nothing wrong with it at all.

Its not going to happen now but my goal back when the majors were hiring was to get hired by UA and stay a FO on a widebody to retirement. 150K (in the day) or more to sit in the right seat, great schedules and QOL with no PIC responsibilities.

 

[On Your Six]

Birdstrike,
Career FO's is the only option at Mesaba Airlines. We are currently accepting resumes from qualified individuals who have no desire for career progression or an increase in earning potential. Mesaba only hires pilots that can take charge of all situations while the "captain" is getting his mocha latte crap, talking on his mobile and jumps in his seat 73 seconds before pushback. Then of course you get to listen to how "When you upgrade, you'll want to find a captain you respect and get his advise on all aspects of flying as an airline captain." I love that talk. Especially from the ass wipes that were hired a whole 5 months before you were.
For anyone that wants to be a career FO, you're a better man than me. I'm getting kinda tired of being a career FO, myself.

I guess you can add Comair to that list... What's the latest upgrade estimate - 8-10 years now?

 

[Mayday911]

You can also add Air Wisconsin to that list as well!!

My favorite is the guys bitching about there job and they upgraded in less than a year...and this is their first airline job.

 

[wings421]

I've been sitting in the right seat for only like 2 1/2 -3 months and I'm about to rip my hair out. Why in the world would you want to be a career FO?

 

[Birdstrike]

"A Man's Got To Know His Limitations"

Why in the world would you want to be a career FO?

1. It's just a role I'm personally more comfortable with. I flew both seats in the military and believe I made a better CP than CPT.

2. Not a Type-A personality with ambitions to necessarily "reach the pinnacle" of everything I do.

3. Have come to value lower stress levels and consistency of routine over promotion.

4. Money not the most important issue. FO pay combined with investments is enuff.

5. Just want to fly my leg, make every Captain glad he's paired with me, and go home. Not interested in pursuing bigger, better, faster, etc.

Probably moot for me anyway unless this industry turns around soon. I just never saw this topic addressed before here and wondered if there were others that felt the same way.

 

[bafanguy]

Bird,


There's a very simple answer to your question...sort of a self-answering thing:

if you fly copilot long enough, you'll WANT to be the captain...

 

[sf3boy]

Currently, about a 5.5 to 6 years will get you into the Saab left seat at Mesaba. But with very minimal attrition from captains, there is only about 2 upgrades every couple of months, so it will be going up.

 

[MetroSheriff]

I've been sitting in the right seat for only like 2 1/2 -3 months and I'm about to rip my hair out. Why in the world would you want to be a career FO?

That is because you are a $hit-hot pilot. It is always a shame to see the ace-of-the-base languishing in the right seat.

 

[BSkin]

If you want to be a career co-pilot, let it be at the company you plan to stay at for your career. No one will want to hire someone who is trying to 'advance' their career if they remained an FO at their current company, had the opportunity to upgrade, and declined. Just my opinion.

 

[wings421]

That is because you are a $hit-hot pilot. It is always a shame to see the ace-of-the-base languishing in the right seat.

Metro - Perhaps you mistook what I was saying. I certainly don't feel "$hit-hot" and I am constantly learning, however, I can't imagine why you wouldn't want to be the PIC,...... EVER. Being fortunate enough to fly single pilot for quite sometime then having to move into a two pilot cockpit has been an adjustment. I was simply making a statement that I would rather call the shots than not. Your comments were off the mark.

 

[46Driver]

If you've never been in command before, it might be a big deal. However, if you have spent a substantial amount of time as an aircraft commander you could really care less. It boils down to the tradeoff of time off vs money.

 

[platinumclub]

nice avatar wings!

 

[350DRIVER]

Bird,

This would have been a better question to put on the majors board. Many senior first officers at the majors never had any intention(s) to upgrade and they were/are happy and content with the senority, money, QOL, etc. Nothing wrong with this at all and it is a practice that has been going on forever. This has everything to do with personal preference and nothing more. If you are happy and content with being a career first officer then that is your choice. With most upgrade times present day at the regionals (other than the bottom feeders) you may get your wish anyways. ( a little sarcasm intended)

I didn't see this quite as evident on the 135 level due to the pay differences between the right and left seat. As soon as I had the flight time, experience, etc, I went right for the upgrade. Not enough money to be a "career" first officer in many of the 135 flight departments. Some of the larger fortune 50 places (91) you could probably swing this and live and be comfortable as a career first officer in the right seat of a GV if that is what you wanted, depends on the company.

Simple answer, no. If you don't have any intentions then you simply don't bid for the upgrade.

3 5 0

 

[Birdstrike]

Bird, This would have been a better question to put on the majors board.

Noted. Thanks to all for the helpful replies.

 

[MetroSheriff]

Metro - Perhaps you mistook what I was saying. I certainly don't feel "$hit-hot" and I am constantly learning, however, I can't imagine why you wouldn't want to be the PIC,...... EVER. Being fortunate enough to fly single pilot for quite sometime then having to move into a two pilot cockpit has been an adjustment. I was simply making a statement that I would rather call the shots than not. Your comments were off the mark.

Wings,

Sorry if the tone was misread. I should have put a smiley face. I was was just busting your chops a little. I apologize if it came across as a slam.

 

[WhiteCloud]

It's not uncommon at all to sit in the right seat longer and wait until you can hold a base or line that you want. A senior FO has much more control of base assignments and schedules than a commuting CA. Commuting expenses can eat up a pay advantage really quick. Lots of FO's have part time jobs that a junior CA schedule would interfere with. If it's a business or personal decision to stay in the right seat and not a lack of ability to be CA then it can be the smart thing to do.