Career Advice for the 2008 hiring boom

[pilotyip]

To degree or not to degree. That is the question, weather it is nobler in minds of the aviation recruiter to have a degree or have experience. Lets us look into the hiring that will hit big time in mid-2008, just like 1998, and 1988, and 1978. Who will get the job at SWA, Air Tran, etc. in 2008, Lets us look at new pilots who graduated from high school in 2000. This spring pilot A will graduate from ERAU or UND or WMU with a degree in Aviation management, 100K in debt and around 350 TT, 50 MEL, the next three years he pick up another 1500 hr mostly light twins and SEL as an instructor. He applies in the spring of 207 with 1850TT, 750MEL, no turbine, 737 type no time in type. I don't think he can even apply. Pilot B went right into flying got all his rating, in the spring of 2004 he had 2000TT, 1000MEL, 1000 PIC, 500 turbin. He then gets hired by ABC cargo company who flies jets, he makes Captain in the DA-20 18 months later, 12 months later he starts flying the DC-9, and makes Capt in the winter of 2007. In the spring of 2008, he has 4500 TT, 3500 MEL 1300 turbin PIC, a type in the DA-20 and the DC-9 . He applies for a job a SWA in the spring of 2008, who gets hired. When pilot A leaves the cago company for SWA, BJ, AirTran or Spirit, pilot B will get hired at the cargo company as a DA-20 F/O. What difference did the degree make?

 

[Jack Schitt]

.......and then pilot A wakes up from his dream and realizes that 1 in 5 applicants with a college degree are getting interviews while 1 in 100 applicants without degrees are getting interviews. He then realizes that he missed the hiring boom and will be working at USA Jet for the rest of his career.

 

[DAL737FO]

pilotyip,

This has been an argued point for many years. I know I kicked and screamed every night I went to college while on active duty. I hated getting a degree (in liberal studies no less) to get a job that I was already doing full time. That being said, I knew that most companies had it as a requirement for being hired.

So you have one candidate that is Chuck Yeager junior with 4500 tt and most of it in jets, however when he/she has to fill out the application they have to leave a spot blank or even worse check the no box and on the other hand you have a candidate that has 1500tt with some jet and has ALL of the boxes checked well sorry Chuck you get passed over.

If you remember the hiring boom of the late 90's early 00's, most companies had a service (UPAS, AEPS and the likes) that filtered the applicants. So it is a computer that makes the decision to move your application forward and all it looks at is the criteria that the company programmed into it. So when it sees an empty box then that application doesn't move forward.

Additionally, with the way this industry has a down cycle every ten years it wouldn't hurt to have a degree (a real one mine is useless) to fall back on if a furlough ever comes.

Furloughed DAL737FO

 

[TOGA]

Get the degree.

 

[English]

get the degree

 

[Alaskaairlines]

"get the degree"

Exactlly what I am doing, but let me tell the guys who are not doing it yet, its one huge work load! Working full time and 12 credits a semester is the max I can handle. Its not that bad really, but the rediculous classes yo uhave to take that have absolutely NOTHING to do with your major is what gets my going, am I the only one?

I'm sure it will pay off in the long run, at least I hope so!

 

[Bertie Wooster]

i can emphatize with you. I am at present struggling with western civilization II(dont know why they call it civilization as people just were killing each other).
well two weeks till the exam man this sucks



sorry just had to vent

 

[slinky]

get the degree

get the degree and I suggest get the flight time in the military.
You get paid decent, fly good equipment, and can always stay in if the job marked is not so good.


slinky

 

[bugchaser]

Get the degree. No question. I went back and got my degree at age 28. Had a family and was flying full time to pay the bills. It was very tough and I almost quit more times than I can count. No, I have not really put it to use but it has opened more doors than I can count. I have worked my way into a good job that allows time for flying 600+ hrs/yr on the side. During this downturn its nice to have a healthy income available. Also, like Chicago said, the personal growth you will get from the experience is priceless.

 

[bugchaser]

cost of 4 year tuition-------$30,000
lost income for 4 yrs--------$150,000

feeling you get watching your non-degreed buddies flip burgers------PRICELESS------

 

[pilotyip]

not mention

Oh! BTW, Pilot A made about 12-15K per year while paying off his debt and pilot B was making 50-60K with no debt, but he is a looser like Bill Gates and David Neilman (sp?) the guy who started JB who don't have college degrees. Guys, if you wanted to be accepted as PC on this board you must get a degree or be treated as sub-human. When the hiring is hot and experience level of new hires is dropping, experinece counts more than the degre and the degree is window dressing except at DAL, UAL, etc. So guys work your butts off in college so you can be in the DAL, UAL hiring window in 2018. Hey USA Jet might be a bottom feeder, but then again 100K per year at age 34, you can suffer through being in the best of the bottom feeders, we have long list of very qualified pilots waiting to come to work for us. Some High School grads, some with Masters degrees, but then again this is all PC incorrect on this board.

 

[pilotyip]

Reversed

Bug Chaser you got it backwards, Pilot A is working as a CFI/135 charter pilot from 2004 until 2006 flipping burgers to get free food, while pilot B is making nearly 200K during the same time frame, but then again pilot B has no self worth because he does not have a college degree. He only has a nice house in the suburbs, a new car, and a family he an afford, but acording to this board pilot B is a loooooooooooser

 

[C150Commuter]

Re: not mention

When the hiring is hot and experience level of new hires is dropping, experinece counts more than the degre and the degree is window dressing except at DAL, UAL, etc.

Wouldn't you rather get a job because of your education, not in spite of a lack of education...plus college is really fun, I think some people would agree with that

 

[Flyingtoohigh]

... western civilization II (dont know why they call it civilization as people just were killing each other)...

That is possibly the greatest history class quote I've ever heard. Been there, done that. I'm in my last year and hope to have a degree in hand by next May or December, depending on SWA.

 

[pilotyip]

Commuter flip that around

Wouldn't you rather get a job because of your expereince and who you are as opposed to a useless degree in some odd ball subject?

 

[C150Commuter]

Re: Commuter flip that around

Wouldn't you rather get a job because of your expereince and who you are as opposed to a useless degree in some odd ball subject?

The degree is a major part of who you are. Its the classes like "western civilization" that bertie is taking and other "odd ball" subjects, as well as the different types of people you interact with that make you the well rounded person hr looks for.

 

[pilotyip]

For Flychicago, pilot C

Pilot C went right into the Army out of High School, two years later he got picked up for the WO flight program. At the end of his 6 year committment, he has 2500 hours, ATP MEL, Type in the CE-550 and BE-200, made good money, picked the regional he wanted to work for, picks up an additional $700-$800 flying in the Guard on the side. But he did not benefit from the mind expanding experienices of college. When you go into the military, you are practically thrown into a new world. You are surrounded by people your own age, expressing new viewpoints, opinions and beliefs. You must learn to become more accepting of differences between those around you. It is not easy to stray from home and begin a life on your own, being forced not only to live, eat, sleep, and operate without anyone to help you, but also have the guts to keep focused and study without your parents' threats. You are your own source of motivation. There are many ways to mature beside the traditional college route. By your analogy, students who live at home because they can not afford to live on campus are not gaining the full benefit of the college degree. It is the person, not the degree, that makes the individual. We have turned dowd many pilots with college degrees, because they could not do the job.

 

[banned username 2]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.......and then pilot B wakes up from his dream and realizes that 1 in 5 applicants with a college degree are getting interviews while 1 in 100 applicants without degrees are getting interviews. He then realizes that he missed the hiring boom and will be working at USA Jet for the rest of his career.

THAT is a fact!

Get the degree... an education is WELL worth it... Why start off behind the power curve and limited in your options?

 

[trainerjet]

This industry has always been and will always be a HIGHLY competitive industry. Sure, you may gamble that during the next hiring boom, which I predict will come no where close to matching the previous one in terms of sheer number of hires, there is an outside chance that there will be a few pilots hired without a degree. Are you willing to take the chance that you might be one of them?

Pilotyip has always advocated not getting a college degree, and using that time to build your flight experience at whatever fly-by-night bottom feeder might hire you in order to gain this experience, so that while those without the college education (but more flight time) will be getting the jobs at the 2nd and 3rd tier (and below) companies, those with the degrees, (but with perhaps less flight time) will be competing for the choice jobs.

Realistically, a college degree is just as important as an ATP. Why arm yourself with something less than the next guy when it comes to stacking your credentials with those of who you will be competing with for these jobs? To choose not to get a degree, and instead using that time to build time at some bottom feeder company is just plain stupid, and so are those that think this is wise career advice.

 

[generaltso]

A degree may not seem like much, however... and you certainly do not need a degree to be a pilot.

However, I think as far as HR goes, they would prefer to see people with degrees. See HR doesn't know you. You are a sheet of paper to them in a huge stack. You may be the greatest pilot in the world, but unless you put that on your resume, HR doesn't know.

When someone gets a degree, it doesn't mean they are smart enough - it means that they can succeed in undertaking a huge task. They can stick to it and see things through.

Now I am not saying someone without a degree lacks those qualities, but like I said before HR doesn't know you!

I think people lose sight of the big picture - what they are to HR. You are a application. You are a sheet of paper. The more boxes you can check, the more likely you are to get an interview... which we all know is the hardest part.

My advise to anyone is get your degree in this downturn and you will be better prepared when it comes back around. Go to your local state or community college... whatever. Just get it.