Capitol question

[AgreenFO]

Hey guys just was wondering what pay was first -2nd year there as a 72 guy or 757 fo. Is the payscale on airline pilot central correct ? Also if someone who works therecould comment on their QOL, days off and upgrade time, I know that's a shot untie dark right now but maybe in times past. Also is there any international flying other than the Latin america stuff ? Thank you very much for your time.

 

[FlyBigE]

Hey guys just was wondering what pay was first -2nd year there as a 72 guy or 757 fo. Is the payscale on airline pilot central correct ? Also if someone who works therecould comment on their QOL, days off and upgrade time, I know that's a shot untie dark right now but maybe in times past. Also is there any international flying other than the Latin america stuff ? Thank you very much for your time.

1st year captain (tentative agreement that is not yet voted on) for 757 & 727, $68,363 (DOS), 69,047 (DOS + 18), 69,738 (DOS + 36), 2nd year captain $72,228 (DOS), 72,951 (DOS +18), 73,680 (DOS + 36). First year first officer for 757 and 727, $40,666 (DOS), $41,073 (DOS + 18), $41,484 (DOS + 36). Second year first officer $42,739 (DOS), $43,167 (DOS + 18), $43,598 (DOS + 36). QOL - Roughly two weeks on, two weeks off schedule. Capital buys tickets for crew members and all crew members are home-based. Upgrade time in as little as one to two years depending on need. No street captains are hired. Only hired as FE's or FO's. Only international flying other than Mexico is Canada, and for 757, Latin and South America.

 

[nitefr8dog]

Hey guys just was wondering what pay was first -2nd year there as a 72 guy or 757 fo. Is the payscale on airline pilot central correct ? Also if someone who works therecould comment on their QOL, days off and upgrade time, I know that's a shot untie dark right now but maybe in times past. Also is there any international flying other than the Latin america stuff ? Thank you very much for your time.

FWIW, currently ABX crews on furlough have first chance at any openings.
(300 ish on furlough). Again FWIW.

 

[AgreenFO]

Thank you. Also is there any crossing over to ATI or ABX if you work for Capital or are they totally separate?

 

[AgreenFO]

One last thing, I understand you guys are CASS, do you have many reciporacle agreements with major airlines? Thanks again

 

[b707guy]

At the moment, the only agreement is through ABX's side letter which essentially requires sister companies to hire them first. The letter is not reciprocal at the moment, so ATI and CCIA folk do not have the same protections. But as it is, ATI and CCIA are the only airline subsidiaries of ATSG currently hiring. I believe the intent is for reciprocity, but you know how it goes with legalese and contract wording. ATI and Cappy need to word such protections into the next contracts to ensure it. So anyway, if you're asking about Cappy in hopes of being hired, it may be a while since furloughed ABX folk have first right of refusal. Unfortunately, there are quite a few. The process was slow to start at least for us, and I don't know if any ABX folk have accepted positions with Cappy, but we've had a number flow into ATI. So far, to my knowledge from both first and second hand, they've all been great to fly with and to hang out with. Can't answer your question about Cappy's CASS agreements.

 

[tired_pilot]

We have all majors except CO and AS, along with pretty much all regionals/charter/cargo carriers...

 

[AgreenFO]

Thanks guys I spoke to a crew the other night coming out of Laredo at 3 am in 123.45 and they gave me the contact info for the CP, I submitted my stuff and spoke to the CP, Hopefully I get the call Thanks again for your info.

 

[ERfly]

So is an FE Written mandatory to be considered for Capitol?

 

[b707guy]

Curious as to what the CP told you? If you have an A&P, the list of ABX's PFEs has been exhausted such that we are hiring PFEs off the street, as should Cappy if they are so inclined. Pilots, on the other hand, are all coming from ABXs furlough list, which should hold true for Cappy as well. Were you told something different?

 

[30West]

It also might help for anyone who is sending in their stuff to address it to Capital Cargo, not Capitol. Just sayin'......

 

[AgreenFO]

I have no A&P ....just trying to be optimistic for an interview. How many ABX guys are taking pilot slots to Capitol do u know of? Are there any guys coming off the street to CAC?

 

[Ammo captain]

I have heard that the ABX guys have to take a two year lock if they go to one of the other ATSG carriers, and that there may be talk of ABX recalling some more people. That possible recall and the two year hiring lock at ATI or CCI will probably cause the top ones to decline any offers. As far as PFE's, isn't ATI parking DC8's and getting 767's and isn't CCI parking 727's and getting 757's?

 

[FCNelson]

Out of curiosity, what has happened to many of the ABX guys who were laid off?

I know some have resurfaced at other cargo carriers such as ATI, Atlas, and USA Jet. Others have gone overseas. How many were laid off total, and is there any hope for them to get recalled now that ABX is showing limited growth.

Thanks for the info. I've been watching this from afar, but have close ties to a town which is close to Wilmongton and I know that part of Ohio's economy has been decimated.

FCN

 

[nitefr8dog]

Out of curiosity, what has happened to many of the ABX guys who were laid off?

I know some have resurfaced at other cargo carriers such as ATI, Atlas, and USA Jet. Others have gone overseas. How many were laid off total, and is there any hope for them to get recalled now that ABX is showing limited growth.

Thanks for the info. I've been watching this from afar, but have close ties to a town which is close to Wilmongton and I know that part of Ohio's economy has been decimated.

FCN

ABX has recalled 25 to 35ish pilots. We have 250 to 300 on furlough. From the message boards (Local 1224) the pilots close to recall are passing ATI and Capitol. The guys 100 to 200 out are accepting the ATI, Capitol offers. The offer is 12 yr pay for the ABX guys, hard to pass up when you are out of work! The rumours from the ABX guys that have been recalled is the recalls will continue. FWIW

 

[nitefr8dog]

I have heard that the ABX guys have to take a two year lock if they go to one of the other ATSG carriers, and that there may be talk of ABX recalling some more people. That possible recall and the two year hiring lock at ATI or CCI will probably cause the top ones to decline any offers. As far as PFE's, isn't ATI parking DC8's and getting 767's and isn't CCI parking 727's and getting 757's?

CCI has 2 757's no plans for any more according to the recent ATSG 10K report. ATI has not indicated any plans to park DC8'S. ATI getting additional 767's is the most likely scenario. The ATI pilots have indicated they are willing to work for less to get more aircraft, looking at the pay I believe that is true.

 

[Fly Astar Jets]

...The ATI pilots have indicated they are willing to work for less to get more aircraft, looking at the pay I believe that is true.

Putting aside the fact that our pay scales are 6 years old, that's a pretty bold statement coming from the poster child group of the mother of all concessionary contracts.

And unless you're that crap eating fly on the wall in the ATI negotiating room, I think you should keep flame baiting statements like that to your 1224 board.

 

[AgreenFO]

Sounds like I get to be crammed in the Lear for a while longer then. Good luck to the guys getting recalled and back online. Cheers

 

[nitefr8dog]

Putting aside the fact that our pay scales are 6 years old, that's a pretty bold statement coming from the poster child group of the mother of all concessionary contracts.

And unless you're that crap eating fly on the wall in the ATI negotiating room, I think you should keep flame baiting statements like that to your 1224 board.

Don't shoot the the messenger... just saying what ATI union rep said to 1224 union rep. FWIW....also my money says ATI will get more 767's and receive less pay to fly them it is what it is.

 

[Captzaahlie]

Putting aside the fact that our pay scales are 6 years old, that's a pretty bold statement coming from the poster child group of the mother of all concessionary contracts.

And unless you're that crap eating fly on the wall in the ATI negotiating room, I think you should keep flame baiting statements like that to your 1224 board.

I have to agree with you Astar, thats a pretty $hitty remark for being at the tale end of a 6 year old contract, especially now when furloughed ABX guys have a place to get off the street and work at.

 

[b707guy]

The ATI pilots have indicated they are willing to work for less to get more aircraft, looking at the pay I believe that is true.

Yeah, we've all been sitting on our asses screaming at the top of our lungs for ATSG to bring any and all 767s over to us because we'll fly them for less. I've done this one time in my history at here on FI - YOU ARE A TOOL! OK, now it's twice.

 

[dsee8driver]

CCI has 2 757's no plans for any more according to the recent ATSG 10K report. ATI has not indicated any plans to park DC8'S. ATI getting additional 767's is the most likely scenario. The ATI pilots have indicated they are willing to work for less to get more aircraft, looking at the pay I believe that is true.

I hate to shoot the messenger but when the messenger is listening to the 1224 tools you have to wonder. Come on nitefr8 you should know better then making such comment or at least talk to your buddies that got recently hired at ATI.
We are getting more 76 with the payscales that have been in place for almost 10 years. Our nego team has not indicated to us or anyone let alone the dopes at 1224 that we would accept a concesionary contract. If anything we would probably hold out for at least what you guys got and we are homebased.

I think payscale wise we are currently not too far off from what you guys have if you try to factor in that we are homebased which does have a value.

 

[OrionFE]

Keep the -8 flying. Love seeing it up in Thule.......

 

[nitefr8dog]

I hate to shoot the messenger but when the messenger is listening to the 1224 tools you have to wonder. Come on nitefr8 you should know better then making such comment or at least talk to your buddies that got recently hired at ATI.
We are getting more 76 with the payscales that have been in place for almost 10 years. Our nego team has not indicated to us or anyone let alone the dopes at 1224 that we would accept a concesionary contract. If anything we would probably hold out for at least what you guys got and we are homebased.

I think payscale wise we are currently not too far off from what you guys have if you try to factor in that we are homebased which does have a value.

You are right, you will match ABX pay (+30K)...keep home basing ( 2 500 dollar round trip tickets per month = 12K) and get all the new 767's! WPF. Here is how it will really happen, " we would love to pay you more but with high cost of operating DC8's ( 4 engine, 3 man, D checks about 4 times the cost of the 767).. we just cannot afford to pay any more and continue the home basing, increased medical costs... etc.. etc,... I might be wrong but just look at what Cappy just settled for! The Tea leaves say almost no raise and the 767's are yours. Or a modest pay raise and Cappy gets them. Let the whipsawing begin!

 

[dsee8driver]

You are right, you will match ABX pay (+30K)...keep home basing ( 2 500 dollar round trip tickets per month = 12K) and get all the new 767's! WPF. Here is how it will really happen, " we would love to pay you more but with high cost of operating DC8's ( 4 engine, 3 man, D checks about 4 times the cost of the 767).. we just cannot afford to pay any more and continue the home basing, increased medical costs... etc.. etc,... I might be wrong but just look at what Cappy just settled for! The Tea leaves say almost no raise and the 767's are yours. Or a modest pay raise and Cappy gets them. Let the whipsawing begin!

Why do you rag on Cappy when you guys settled for a concessionary contract?
You statement before was "They seem to be willing to work for less" when in FACT, FACT, FACT the only ones that settled for less so far has been ABX. Cappy might not be up there but they did not settle for less.
Now on this response all you make is ASSumptions.

People that live in glass houses........... you get it right..

 

[nitefr8dog]

Why do you rag on Cappy when you guys settled for a concessionary contract?
You statement before was "They seem to be willing to work for less" when in FACT, FACT, FACT the only ones that settled for less so far has been ABX. Cappy might not be up there but they did not settle for less.
Now on this response all you make is ASSumptions.

People that live in glass houses........... you get it right..

Because ABX is still the highest paid ACMI carrier out there flying more than 8 airframes. And I predict when the dust settles ABX will still be the highest paid of the ATSG carrier's. We gave up some pay but had the most to give up and still make a helluva alot more than the other carriers under the ATSG umbrella.

 

[Captzaahlie]

Or a modest pay raise and Cappy gets them. Let the whipsawing begin!

Cappy has big time issues in just operating right now............
(manning problems, mel problems, huge faa scrutinizing going on)
Not a huge threat there dog.

 

[dsee8driver]

Because ABX is still the highest paid ACMI carrier out there flying more than 8 airframes. And I predict when the dust settles ABX will still be the highest paid of the ATSG carrier's. We gave up some pay but had the most to give up and still make a helluva alot more than the other carriers under the ATSG umbrella.

Yes nitefr8 you are right. When the dust settles you MIGHT be the highest paid ACMI but with 200-300 guys still on the streets and from the few (5) guys I have talked to that are here now, one of the most miserable places to work at. But you are the highest paid!!

For us, we will probably settle for a fair contract that will include homebasing. Hopefully our QOL will improve although you don't hear many complaining about it now. Yes we don't make as much as ABX but it is not far behind and yet it has allowed BAX to grow and continue to use the ol' faithful 8 while we transition to a new aircraft. But you are the highest paid with 200-300 guys without jobs. Can we use some new work rules? Absolutely, and our MEC is hard at work getting us a descent contract.
Regardless, you don't hear many guys complain about ATI. We are hiring.. not recalling and hopefully we will offer jobs to your 1224 brothers while you are the highest paid ACMI with 200-300 guys on the streets...

 

[nitefr8dog]

Yes nitefr8 you are right. When the dust settles you MIGHT be the highest paid ACMI but with 200-300 guys still on the streets and from the few (5) guys I have talked to that are here now, one of the most miserable places to work at. But you are the highest paid!!

For us, we will probably settle for a fair contract that will include homebasing. Hopefully our QOL will improve although you don't hear many complaining about it now. Yes we don't make as much as ABX but it is not far behind and yet it has allowed BAX to grow and continue to use the ol' faithful 8 while we transition to a new aircraft. But you are the highest paid with 200-300 guys without jobs. Can we use some new work rules? Absolutely, and our MEC is hard at work getting us a descent contract.
Regardless, you don't hear many guys complain about ATI. We are hiring.. not recalling and hopefully we will offer jobs to your 1224 brothers while you are the highest paid ACMI with 200-300 guys on the streets...

Let's see when ABX was flying DC8's at the same time as ATI was flying DC8's we made 37K more base pay. Now I am sure you will say that is because ABX was 3 times the size of ATI and generated more revenue and could pay a hirer wage. Now that ABX is 2/3rd's the size it was at that time and took a pay adjustment in line with the lower revenue's generated we are a bunch of bums who took concessions. And ATI was not just working for alot less money! Bite me! ATSG suggested ABX lower their pay to match the ATI pay. Most of us said we would rather see the airline close it's doors. Things are so rosy at ATI we have pilots on furlough that have elected to stay on unemployment and wait for a recall than accept a position at ATI. How can that be it is utopia over there? I dare say not one pilot on the ABX list would swap places to be on ATI's list.

I stand by my prediction ATI has in the past and will in the future work for less compensation.

And yes we have 200-300 pilots on furlough... be glad the Germans did not purchase ATI...the doors would be shut, you would never have weathered the storm flying old equipment.

 

[Captzaahlie]

Let's see when ABX was flying DC8's at the same time as ATI was flying DC8's we made 37K more base pay. Now I am sure you will say that is because ABX was 3 times the size of ATI and generated more revenue and could pay a hirer wage. Now that ABX is 2/3rd's the size it was at that time and took a pay adjustment in line with the lower revenue's generated we are a bunch of bums who took concessions. And ATI was not just working for alot less money! Bite me! ATSG suggested ABX lower their pay to match the ATI pay. Most of us said we would rather see the airline close it's doors. Things are so rosy at ATI we have pilots on furlough that have elected to stay on unemployment and wait for a recall than accept a position at ATI. How can that be it is utopia over there? I dare say not one pilot on the ABX list would swap places to be on ATI's list.

I stand by my prediction ATI has in the past and will in the future work for less compensation.

And yes we have 200-300 pilots on furlough... be glad the Germans did not purchase ATI...the doors would be shut, you would never have weathered the storm flying old equipment.

Face it people are bypassing jobs at ATI in hopes of being recalled at ABX those further up on the list don't want to commit to 2 years at ATI. Spin it anyway you like but that's the reality of the subject. In the mean time I think you need to just STFU and be happy some of your fellow pilots have the ability to get off unemployment and feed their families. They are being treated pretty well here and everyone of them I've met seem sincerely happy to be flying again. Maybe you should take your drivel over to one of the German cargo forums and discuss your plight with them.....