Capitol question

[nitefr8dog]

I have heard that the ABX guys have to take a two year lock if they go to one of the other ATSG carriers, and that there may be talk of ABX recalling some more people. That possible recall and the two year hiring lock at ATI or CCI will probably cause the top ones to decline any offers. As far as PFE's, isn't ATI parking DC8's and getting 767's and isn't CCI parking 727's and getting 757's?

CCI has 2 757's no plans for any more according to the recent ATSG 10K report. ATI has not indicated any plans to park DC8'S. ATI getting additional 767's is the most likely scenario. The ATI pilots have indicated they are willing to work for less to get more aircraft, looking at the pay I believe that is true.

 

[Fly Astar Jets]

...The ATI pilots have indicated they are willing to work for less to get more aircraft, looking at the pay I believe that is true.

Putting aside the fact that our pay scales are 6 years old, that's a pretty bold statement coming from the poster child group of the mother of all concessionary contracts.

And unless you're that crap eating fly on the wall in the ATI negotiating room, I think you should keep flame baiting statements like that to your 1224 board.

 

[AgreenFO]

Sounds like I get to be crammed in the Lear for a while longer then. Good luck to the guys getting recalled and back online. Cheers

 

[nitefr8dog]

Putting aside the fact that our pay scales are 6 years old, that's a pretty bold statement coming from the poster child group of the mother of all concessionary contracts.

And unless you're that crap eating fly on the wall in the ATI negotiating room, I think you should keep flame baiting statements like that to your 1224 board.

Don't shoot the the messenger... just saying what ATI union rep said to 1224 union rep. FWIW....also my money says ATI will get more 767's and receive less pay to fly them it is what it is.

 

[Captzaahlie]

Putting aside the fact that our pay scales are 6 years old, that's a pretty bold statement coming from the poster child group of the mother of all concessionary contracts.

And unless you're that crap eating fly on the wall in the ATI negotiating room, I think you should keep flame baiting statements like that to your 1224 board.

I have to agree with you Astar, thats a pretty $hitty remark for being at the tale end of a 6 year old contract, especially now when furloughed ABX guys have a place to get off the street and work at.

 

[b707guy]

The ATI pilots have indicated they are willing to work for less to get more aircraft, looking at the pay I believe that is true.

Yeah, we've all been sitting on our asses screaming at the top of our lungs for ATSG to bring any and all 767s over to us because we'll fly them for less. I've done this one time in my history at here on FI - YOU ARE A TOOL! OK, now it's twice.

 

[dsee8driver]

CCI has 2 757's no plans for any more according to the recent ATSG 10K report. ATI has not indicated any plans to park DC8'S. ATI getting additional 767's is the most likely scenario. The ATI pilots have indicated they are willing to work for less to get more aircraft, looking at the pay I believe that is true.

I hate to shoot the messenger but when the messenger is listening to the 1224 tools you have to wonder. Come on nitefr8 you should know better then making such comment or at least talk to your buddies that got recently hired at ATI.
We are getting more 76 with the payscales that have been in place for almost 10 years. Our nego team has not indicated to us or anyone let alone the dopes at 1224 that we would accept a concesionary contract. If anything we would probably hold out for at least what you guys got and we are homebased.

I think payscale wise we are currently not too far off from what you guys have if you try to factor in that we are homebased which does have a value.

 

[OrionFE]

Keep the -8 flying. Love seeing it up in Thule.......

 

[nitefr8dog]

I hate to shoot the messenger but when the messenger is listening to the 1224 tools you have to wonder. Come on nitefr8 you should know better then making such comment or at least talk to your buddies that got recently hired at ATI.
We are getting more 76 with the payscales that have been in place for almost 10 years. Our nego team has not indicated to us or anyone let alone the dopes at 1224 that we would accept a concesionary contract. If anything we would probably hold out for at least what you guys got and we are homebased.

I think payscale wise we are currently not too far off from what you guys have if you try to factor in that we are homebased which does have a value.

You are right, you will match ABX pay (+30K)...keep home basing ( 2 500 dollar round trip tickets per month = 12K) and get all the new 767's! WPF. Here is how it will really happen, " we would love to pay you more but with high cost of operating DC8's ( 4 engine, 3 man, D checks about 4 times the cost of the 767).. we just cannot afford to pay any more and continue the home basing, increased medical costs... etc.. etc,... I might be wrong but just look at what Cappy just settled for! The Tea leaves say almost no raise and the 767's are yours. Or a modest pay raise and Cappy gets them. Let the whipsawing begin!

 

[dsee8driver]

You are right, you will match ABX pay (+30K)...keep home basing ( 2 500 dollar round trip tickets per month = 12K) and get all the new 767's! WPF. Here is how it will really happen, " we would love to pay you more but with high cost of operating DC8's ( 4 engine, 3 man, D checks about 4 times the cost of the 767).. we just cannot afford to pay any more and continue the home basing, increased medical costs... etc.. etc,... I might be wrong but just look at what Cappy just settled for! The Tea leaves say almost no raise and the 767's are yours. Or a modest pay raise and Cappy gets them. Let the whipsawing begin!

Why do you rag on Cappy when you guys settled for a concessionary contract?
You statement before was "They seem to be willing to work for less" when in FACT, FACT, FACT the only ones that settled for less so far has been ABX. Cappy might not be up there but they did not settle for less.
Now on this response all you make is ASSumptions.

People that live in glass houses........... you get it right..

 

[nitefr8dog]

Why do you rag on Cappy when you guys settled for a concessionary contract?
You statement before was "They seem to be willing to work for less" when in FACT, FACT, FACT the only ones that settled for less so far has been ABX. Cappy might not be up there but they did not settle for less.
Now on this response all you make is ASSumptions.

People that live in glass houses........... you get it right..

Because ABX is still the highest paid ACMI carrier out there flying more than 8 airframes. And I predict when the dust settles ABX will still be the highest paid of the ATSG carrier's. We gave up some pay but had the most to give up and still make a helluva alot more than the other carriers under the ATSG umbrella.

 

[Captzaahlie]

Or a modest pay raise and Cappy gets them. Let the whipsawing begin!

Cappy has big time issues in just operating right now............
(manning problems, mel problems, huge faa scrutinizing going on)
Not a huge threat there dog.

 

[dsee8driver]

Because ABX is still the highest paid ACMI carrier out there flying more than 8 airframes. And I predict when the dust settles ABX will still be the highest paid of the ATSG carrier's. We gave up some pay but had the most to give up and still make a helluva alot more than the other carriers under the ATSG umbrella.

Yes nitefr8 you are right. When the dust settles you MIGHT be the highest paid ACMI but with 200-300 guys still on the streets and from the few (5) guys I have talked to that are here now, one of the most miserable places to work at. But you are the highest paid!!

For us, we will probably settle for a fair contract that will include homebasing. Hopefully our QOL will improve although you don't hear many complaining about it now. Yes we don't make as much as ABX but it is not far behind and yet it has allowed BAX to grow and continue to use the ol' faithful 8 while we transition to a new aircraft. But you are the highest paid with 200-300 guys without jobs. Can we use some new work rules? Absolutely, and our MEC is hard at work getting us a descent contract.
Regardless, you don't hear many guys complain about ATI. We are hiring.. not recalling and hopefully we will offer jobs to your 1224 brothers while you are the highest paid ACMI with 200-300 guys on the streets...

 

[nitefr8dog]

Yes nitefr8 you are right. When the dust settles you MIGHT be the highest paid ACMI but with 200-300 guys still on the streets and from the few (5) guys I have talked to that are here now, one of the most miserable places to work at. But you are the highest paid!!

For us, we will probably settle for a fair contract that will include homebasing. Hopefully our QOL will improve although you don't hear many complaining about it now. Yes we don't make as much as ABX but it is not far behind and yet it has allowed BAX to grow and continue to use the ol' faithful 8 while we transition to a new aircraft. But you are the highest paid with 200-300 guys without jobs. Can we use some new work rules? Absolutely, and our MEC is hard at work getting us a descent contract.
Regardless, you don't hear many guys complain about ATI. We are hiring.. not recalling and hopefully we will offer jobs to your 1224 brothers while you are the highest paid ACMI with 200-300 guys on the streets...

Let's see when ABX was flying DC8's at the same time as ATI was flying DC8's we made 37K more base pay. Now I am sure you will say that is because ABX was 3 times the size of ATI and generated more revenue and could pay a hirer wage. Now that ABX is 2/3rd's the size it was at that time and took a pay adjustment in line with the lower revenue's generated we are a bunch of bums who took concessions. And ATI was not just working for alot less money! Bite me! ATSG suggested ABX lower their pay to match the ATI pay. Most of us said we would rather see the airline close it's doors. Things are so rosy at ATI we have pilots on furlough that have elected to stay on unemployment and wait for a recall than accept a position at ATI. How can that be it is utopia over there? I dare say not one pilot on the ABX list would swap places to be on ATI's list.

I stand by my prediction ATI has in the past and will in the future work for less compensation.

And yes we have 200-300 pilots on furlough... be glad the Germans did not purchase ATI...the doors would be shut, you would never have weathered the storm flying old equipment.

 

[Captzaahlie]

Let's see when ABX was flying DC8's at the same time as ATI was flying DC8's we made 37K more base pay. Now I am sure you will say that is because ABX was 3 times the size of ATI and generated more revenue and could pay a hirer wage. Now that ABX is 2/3rd's the size it was at that time and took a pay adjustment in line with the lower revenue's generated we are a bunch of bums who took concessions. And ATI was not just working for alot less money! Bite me! ATSG suggested ABX lower their pay to match the ATI pay. Most of us said we would rather see the airline close it's doors. Things are so rosy at ATI we have pilots on furlough that have elected to stay on unemployment and wait for a recall than accept a position at ATI. How can that be it is utopia over there? I dare say not one pilot on the ABX list would swap places to be on ATI's list.

I stand by my prediction ATI has in the past and will in the future work for less compensation.

And yes we have 200-300 pilots on furlough... be glad the Germans did not purchase ATI...the doors would be shut, you would never have weathered the storm flying old equipment.

Face it people are bypassing jobs at ATI in hopes of being recalled at ABX those further up on the list don't want to commit to 2 years at ATI. Spin it anyway you like but that's the reality of the subject. In the mean time I think you need to just STFU and be happy some of your fellow pilots have the ability to get off unemployment and feed their families. They are being treated pretty well here and everyone of them I've met seem sincerely happy to be flying again. Maybe you should take your drivel over to one of the German cargo forums and discuss your plight with them.....