Can you switch to tower at the marker?

[The FNG]

Here's a novel idea:

Check in with tower on the other radio!

Give up company to talk to tower.

So what if you haven't checked out with approach before checking in with tower, you're still up if they want to talk.

Then if you're feeling really crazy, try scratching your nuts at the same time.

 

[avbug]

I believe that's the general idea that everybody has been putting across. Don't wait: go to tower. However, the thread also shifted from the idea of weather or not to call (call: that's a given), to what to do if unable to get the clearance from the tower (stuck mic, fequency congestion, NoRad, etc).

If you're getting close and haven't heard, you're required to query ATC. If that doesn't work, then try tower directly, and if unable to raise them there, you need to be looking for a light signal (got one, last year...first time in a very long time), and considering contact on 121.5 as a final alternate soloution.

 

[AVI8V1]

I like the FNG's style.

 

[Eric]

Ahhh.....what it actually takes for this stuff to sink in!

I read this thread in December, and experienced it today. Late handoff from approach- we called 1 mile final. Tower was upset and told us to switch at the FAF if not handed off.

Having experienced the rote, I can correlate that I was an idiot

 

[nosehair]

aaahhh...what to do? The never-ending question about what to do when....the existing situation is not defined in writing.
Here's the deal: Land with no clearance, and no one is hurt or surprised (99% of the time), and tower pats you on the back for doing "what they expect." Land with no clearance, and run into a crossing vehicle or make the 747 behind you go-around, or land on top of you, and it is YOUR fault. You Decide. Be situationaly aware. Any movement on or around the runway / taxiway entrance?...was anybody else on the approach? If you are sure enough, land...if you have any doubt, go-around and take the tounge lashing from the cretins behind the controller's mike. You decide.

 

[Vector4fun]

FWIW, my opinion as a controller:

I appreciate the folks that check with approach before just switching over. But I can see switching if you can't get an answer. A lot of the time we get distracted and busy. Often, tower is calling us to switch somebody.

As for landing without clearance, that actually happens with some regularity. If no safety problem, and because of communications foul-up, usually no big deal. But let me make plain that there is NO rule saying you're automaticaly cleared to land because you have an approach clearance, either in the FARs or in the 7110.65, 7210.3 etc. You may be "expected to" by the controller at the time, but it's no rule. The rule is you should have a landing clearance.

If you DO go around though, remember this: Your missed approach may NOT be clear of traffic! Unless the WX is IFR, we don't routinely protect the missed approach path. If we did, we'd never move traffic. The tower now has to QUICKLY make a plan for your miss, execute it, coordinate it with the approach control or Center. The "attitude" you may have gotten from the tower controller is just frustration. Don't worry about it.

I would just say try to maintain some situational awareness and do what you think is MOST SAFE at that moment and in that situation. It may be go-around, it may be land. Can't make a "rule" that fits every situation. Even though FAA and Lawyers try.....

 

[Bernoulli]

I have had a tounge lashing from a class D tower controller for not switching to tower sooner. I think the best rule of thumb is to definetly switch to tower after the FAF if Approach has not handed you off. I really like the idea of calling on the other radio if you feel approach is real busy.

 

[AceCrackshot]

Vector4fun-
I was under the impression that at the FAF you could automatically switch to tower...that is, there is a regulatory basis for it...I remember reading it somewhere, but I am too lazy to look it up.

This has happened to me multiple times in DEN, but no where else. Even DCA and LGA manage to clear people to land...sometimes even in the flare...FWIW.

 

[Vector4fun]

Vector4fun-
I was under the impression that at the FAF you could automatically switch to tower...that is, there is a regulatory basis for it...I remember reading it somewhere,

Ace, the only thing "regulatory" I find in the Controller's Handbook, 7110.65 is:

5-9-4. ARRIVAL INSTRUCTIONS

Issue all of the following to an aircraft before it reaches the approach gate:


yada, yada, yada,


d. Instructions to do one of the following:

NOTE-
The principal purpose of this paragraph is to ensure that frequency changes are made prior to passing the final approach fix. However, at times it will be desirable to retain an aircraft on the approach control frequency to provide a single-frequency approach or other radar services. When this occurs, it will be necessary to relay tower clearances or instructions to preclude changing frequencies prior to landing or approach termination.

1. Monitor local control frequency, reporting to the tower when over the approach fix.

2. Contact the tower on local control frequency.

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.65, Communications Release, Para 4-8-8.

3. Contact the final controller on the appropriate frequency if radar service will be provided on final on a different frequency.

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.65, Final Controller Changeover, Para 5-10-8.

4. When radar is used to establish the final approach fix, inform the pilot that after being advised that he/she is over the fix he/she is to contact the tower on local control frequency.


Point of info, Para 4-8-8 simply says:





4-8-8. COMMUNICATIONS RELEASE

If an IFR aircraft intends to land at an airport not served by a tower or FSS, approve a change to the advisory service frequency when you no longer require direct communications.

It is also true that most facility manuals state that arrivals

should be changed to the Tower Freq somewhere between fifteen miles and the FAF.

However, I've never found anything that says the pilot should just go ahead and do it. Now, having said that, I again say that I completely understand a pilot doing it if unable to communicate with the approach controller. Happens every week. My main concern is that somebody assumes they're supposed to land without a landing clearance. That happens too. Usually totaly safe and expected, but not necessarily legal.

 

[CaSyndrm]

It aint rocket science. Change over at the marker even if you can't talk to aproach, but make an attempt shortly before if you haven't been instructed. NO CLEARANCE TO LAND, DON'T LAND...

To many stories and experiences to tell but, it aint brain surgery...