Can we stop whining.

[Dirty Dingus]

Fisch, Wolf is dead-on about Int'l experience, it has nothing to do with flying a G, Flying military, Sr71's, or flying whatever, has nothing to do with Netjet's type of Int'l flying. I would also like to point out, truth be told, that ONLY a handful of PIC'S from NJA made the transition in the 6 month period, and a few of those pilot's barely passed the first time, not counting the first PIC to come over(That boy from OKLA is DAMN good). MOST chose to wait a full year to attempt the upgrade, and still had trouble. You may want to contact some of the BBJ guy's at Netjets who just finished school and ask what they think of the G and how much extra training they had. I think you'll find out it's MORE than a handful.
Man, I love this board, there's some funny $**t on here!!!!!! :laugh:
Please don't take all these post to heart, it's ONLY fun, and so many people can jerk a chain.

P.S. I still think the company(NJNA) is only thinking of safety and no one care's who has been in line the longest. (What time in the lobby Capt.!!!!, and by the way it's payday tomorrow) is my motto. haaaaaahhahahahahahh.:laugh:
P.S.S. I think the Master is 100% correct also........

 

[ozpilot]

I would also like to point out, truth be told, that ONLY a handful of PIC'S from NJA made the transition in the 6 month period, and a few of those pilot's barely passed the first time, not counting the first PIC to come over(That boy from OKLA is DAMN good). MOST chose to wait a full year to attempt the upgrade, and still had trouble. You may want to contact some of the BBJ guy's at Netjets who just finished school and ask what they think of the G and how much extra training they had. I think you'll find out it's MORE than a handful.

DD, I know you as a friend and respect you as an a Union representative, but I have to call you on this one - putting this info out on a public message board is not cool, and is irrelevant to the argument.

 

[jppt2000]

Lets not mix fruit and veggies here Jay and throw gas on the fire. You have thousand of hours of military flying... and that is the kind of experience I'm talking about.

My posts are directly squarely at the 30 year old types who think international Ops is flying to Mexico. A good 70% of international flying has nothing at all do with flying the aircraft at all. Government regulations, security, local customs, etc etc is what takes time to learn.

But I'm done with this thread. Good luck with your Gulfstream, its obvious where we NJI types stand.

Wow, how self serving and phony , from you and your buds.

 

[RNObased]

This message is for the 5%er's that will most likly NEVER be on the G,
I suspect it's the JUNIOR PIC'S/SIC's that's doing all the whining. I've never heard sooooo many crying BABIES in my life. The WHO'S the PIC is A JOKE. (I want to be the pic, I was here first). This is one of the main reason's why NO ONE wants to be in a UNION.
You guy's think you can jump in a G and go to the other side of the world and deal with All the B.S. that goes with it and do it safely and professional to meet all the customer's need's, With a few month's experience. I'm all for it. I perfer it as a matter of fact. I get paid the same. I'm with the other guy's (what time in the lobby BOSS).
I know for a fact that more than one of the (senior) NJA guy's to include the BBJ guy's, that came over to NJI, had problems getting thru the training. Those guy's may have flown the BBJ international, but ask them how much experience they have doing that type of flying. (Very little from what I hear, They didn't go anywhere, the company had to FIND work for the plane, They sat for month's at a time and never moved.) Yes with the proper training anyone can do it, No one is trying to pull something over on the union, we are trying to be professional and safe!!!!!
So for all you want to be a G pilots, stop causing problems for the company and just do YOUR job.

Man, I bet you are just a joy to fly with, being so humble and such a class act and all. I won't want to be a G pilot if I had to deal with people like you.

 

[Dirty Dingus]

DD, I know you as a friend and respect you as an a Union representative, but I have to call you on this one - putting this info out on a public message board is not cool, and is irrelevant to the argument.

Oz, my apologies, no disrespect intended. I should have worded the sentence differently. I just want to point out to the 5%er's that this is no cake walk doing this job and very few or if any, can come into an extensive Int'l operation such as NJI and be the PIC safely and professionally.

 

[Dirty Dingus]

Man, I bet you are just a joy to fly with, being so humble and such a class act and all. I won't want to be a G pilot if I had to deal with people like you.

Hey, I am fun to fly with, just ask anyone who has. :laugh: I'm just tired of all the whinning from the Junior pilot's at NJ that don't have a clue what's going on in the company. Who know's, you may be one of them with a reply like this. heeeheheheheheh :beer:

 

[gutshotdraw]

I just want to point out to the 5%er's that this is no cake walk doing this job and very few or if any, can come into an extensive Int'l operation such as NJI and be the PIC safely and professionally.

Sorry Dinger,

I just don't agree. Does the airframe have a few quirks and a learning curve? Sure. But so does any airplane. Our training is good enough and our handling support from the NOC, er, um, CMH and Jeppeson is good enough to get the job done.

And the issue is moot anyway. There is NO movement in the fleet. All the PIC's that are going to be flying in the G fleet are here already and have more than enough experience to take the jet to pretty much any of the bizarro destinations we sometimes go to. There won't be an open PIC bid in either fleet for years so what's the problem?

This whole thread was started because of a foolish idea of trying to circumvent the OBVIOUSLY contractually required standard of DOH for EVERYTHING including PIC assignments when Captains are paired together.

A lot of folks need to dial things back a notch and realize the new paradigm is here and we're going to need some give and take from both houses make it all work.

 

[ozpilot]

Oz, my apologies, no disrespect intended.

No worries. It hit a nerve with me because I thought you were a Union official. I confused you with another poster who also uses your Avator.

Grizz corrected me Its all good.

 

[Semore Butts]

I think I'm internationally qualified, but.......

I've flown all of Western and Eastern Europe, Mid East and some Africa.

This includes Bosnia, Iraq, and Afghanistan during the wars (didn't see any QS "tail" there).

(We didn't have Jeppesen international either)

(Oh yeah, and I did it in a B-200 and an Ultra)

I'm with Griz on this one.

If I never cross the American border again it will be fine.

(Even the islands are a pain in the ass)

I understand the confusion of speaking to ATC in five different dialects of broken english in a day. (on a routine basis)

I have shot an NDB to a mountainous "Mig base" as one poster noted, as well as dual NDB approaches. (I have lived on a mig base in 3 diferrent countries)

Oh and don't forget the little goat f#$% of flying "meters" instead of "feet".

I think my favorite is when a truck load of guys with AK-47's show up and want this or that paperwork, then five minutes later a different truck load of guys with AK-47's show up and want the same paperwork! ( I hope they don't all show up at once and get in a hassle!)

Everybody starts at hour one.

I think a vast majority of the pilots I have flown with at NJA would be fine. Many have flown overseas already.

I'm glad I did it, it was cool. (as much as a pain as it was) But I was young then (40! and 50!)

I can't wait for the NJI guys get over here so we can actually pool our resources.

Hey! I could talk about me all day! But enough war stories!

Take care, Semore,

 

[wolfpackpilot]

we're going to need some give and take from both houses make it all work.

Sorry... There is but 'one' house. And be rest assured, your bedroom is the furthest from the bathroom. NJI pilots can do themselves a mental justice by flushing the last 15 years out of their memory banks. I go out on tour next week, and believe me, I'm treating Day 1 like the first day at a new job. As for making it work... make what work? The CBA is clear, the rules are laid out, the LOA is in full effect, 2 pilots will operate a plane safely from A to B regardless if they say 5 words to one another the entire tour. There is nothing to 'make'.

Rotor Head summed it up... its over. NJI is done, the NOC is gone, less than 50% of our office people even work for this company anymore, its over. Period. The discussions are pointless from here on. What I always find interesting is how no one is allowed to express their opinion without having their guts ripped out.

 

[G200_PILOT]

Hey, I am fun to fly with, just ask anyone who has. :laugh:

Yeah, until it's time to visit a Mexican hospital! Then the fun's over!!!

 

[gutshotdraw]

Sorry... There is but 'one' house. And be rest assured, your bedroom is the furthest from the bathroom. NJI pilots can do themselves a mental justice by flushing the last 15 years out of their memory banks. I go out on tour next week, and believe me, I'm treating Day 1 like the first day at a new job. As for making it work... make what work? The CBA is clear, the rules are laid out, the LOA is in full effect, 2 pilots will operate a plane safely from A to B regardless if they say 5 words to one another the entire tour. There is nothing to 'make'.

Rotor Head summed it up... its over. NJI is done, the NOC is gone, less than 50% of our office people even work for this company anymore, its over. Period. The discussions are pointless from here on. What I always find interesting is how no one is allowed to express their opinion without having their guts ripped out.

Uh.....that's pretty much what I was saying. It is over but some on the NJI side are trying to cling to a notion that the NJI way might somehow sneak through. Hell, the F/A's are saying they're going to try to get "first-come, first-served" on vacations and start dates like we used to. FANTASY.

But it's also silly for some of our pilots to cling to the notion that this stuff is rocket science and can't be done unless you kneel at Charlie's feet for an international tour to East Bum$u(k first.

 

[Dirty Dingus]

Hey Gut, Keep that thought in mind (this Int'l flying stuff is REAL easy ALL the time). And please, ask for all the NEW Captain's with little or NO Int'l experience to fly with you, be the PIC, and take you into that dark hole, ONE LAST TIME, By the way, I really don't think you would let that happen. I can just hear the tape " What's it doing now?????":laugh:
Like ya"ll say "It AIN'T Rocket Surgery" It only takes one time, and your head is down trying to fix something they screwed up, you look up and get a pine tree in your teeth. Get my drift yet???? You of all people should know, there are Weak Captains in every flight department, and being in LINE first has nothing to do with being safe. Let's be real here, yes some are better than other's and the company has a great system to get us thru most of the tough times, BUT if my family and I are on board, I want someone like you at the controls , NOT someone who came over in the last few month's and has seniority number in the teens or lower!!!
Back to the origin of this thread, the company and the union should come to some sort of an agreement to allow the NEW senior guy's to be PIC, say after a certain period of time such as a year. As far as I'm concerned I still couldn't care LESS who is the PIC as long as my pay check keeps coming. I welcome the A guy's to the G's. I have 3 very good friends that work for the dark side:laugh:. It's a new dawn and I'm just happy to be here.

 

[RTRHD]

Well time for some common ground. Why does it take all freaking day on the airlines to do a 2.5 hour trip.:uzi: Thanks for all the entertainment guys I have been stuck on the west coast all rotation with nothing going on. I have been bored to tears hence this thread. So in the morn you will not have me to kick around anymore. Because I will be in US Air helll all day!!!

 

[RTRHD]

O Yea Reno. I think "Team Bubba" would look good on the back of my leather jacket.

 

[gutshotdraw]

O Yea Reno. I think "Team Bubba" would look good on the back of my leather jacket.

I'm "Team Catfish." I get fed the crap off the bottom...

 

[Dirty Dingus]

:laugh: Can I get on one of those team's????, I hear I can't be very much fun to fly with. Damn and I thought I made some improvement since I got out of the special hospital !!!! :nuts: Well the neighbor hood his going back down again. :beer:

 

[Fozzy]

I'll start with a few things I can think of off hand. Givebacks in work rules were the main problem.

Basically the union gave the company everything they wanted as far as scheduling is concerned. I do mean everthing. They did this to get better basing and pay for the SIC's. They gave a small raise to captains but unfortunately the work rules and loss of OT due to day one airline show/go rules have far outweighed the small pay raise we were given. Most of the PIC's have lost money on this deal. Some SIC's actually lost money too because they are not allowed to get by pass pay now with the IBB rules.

Most of the NJA guys aren't interested in the NJA side. IBB was a big part of the seniority list being merged. I think most of the NJA guys didn't look hard enough at this when they voted. Well at this point I don't see how any YES voter can complain. We knew all this BS was going to happen before the IBB vote.

A bunch of pilots lost out on getting their 4 weeks vacation (during year 10) because IBB changed the vacation bidding schedule (you have to complete 10 years of service to get the 4th week) (we hired a ton of pilots in the fall of 2001) (honestly many of those pilots have no idea that they will miss their 4th week of vacation by a month or two yet). On top of that many lost 5 or 6 days vacation due to the vacation bid schedule (although we did get paid for those days we still lost them).

This is just a basic overview of the problem with IBB. I could go on and on about this. The givebacks on scheduling and work rules are really sad. We will never be able to get that stuff back. Its all lost now.

Don't forget that shortly after IBB 2 of the top ranking union members left to go to Managment. Something else that we all could easily see before IBB. I'm convinced that IBB had something to do with this.

Don't have time to read all 4 pages, so I will finish up later. But I had to respond to this post.

IBB saved our collective buts. Sure we lost some. But we also gained a bunch. Got an LOA for NJI, not perfect, but not horrible. Secured our medical, last year we would have taken a hit like everyone else.

Vacation, you are completely incorrect. It moved the cut off for everyone forward 3 months to Sept 30. Where before the cutoff June 30th, IBB allowed 3 months of pilots, those hired between July 1 and Sept 30, to get that extra year of vacation one year earlier. You always had to complete 10 years of service by the cut off date. It was an improvement!!!

Yes, we did take a hit on day 1 OT as far as the set show/go. It has cost me maybe $400 since IBB. My raise has FAR outweighed that small loss. Hell that number could have been $4000 in lost OT, and I still made up for it in 6 months on the new payscale.
What other scheduling things did we give up? Seams? Flush bid? All fine with me. The system works great and I am very happy with my scheduling. Bottom 1/3 of the list in my seat.

OH and that little nugget that we would be negotiations during one of the worst economic climate in the last 60 years!
I am so very glad I didn't listen to the very vocal group trying to shoot down the IBB.

 

[gutshotdraw]

After my conversation today with one of my immediate supervisors, I can say unequivocally that my Give-A-$hit meter is now officially pegged on zero.

Stick a fork in me, I'm done. Happy trails y'all.

 

[OPECJet]

After my conversation today with one of my immediate supervisors, I can say unequivocally that my Give-A-$hit meter is now officially pegged on zero.

Stick a fork in me, I'm done. Happy trails y'all.

Cool. You're senior to me, and we're having $$$ issues.