Can other airlines see if I washed out of training?

[bigbird]

I was hired by an airline earlier this year and didnt do so well during training. I had some distractions at home and just couldnt focus during the intiail F/O training. I failed my oral and they sent me home. I never took the final checkride. The chief of training told me that this didnt have to be shared with any future employers. I called the FAA and they didnt see any failed checkrides or anything from that airline. So do I need to bring this up in future interviews? Can this be found anywhere else? I would imagine that if it wasnt reported to the faa then I should just leave it alone and not bring it up during a interview. Any suggestions?

 

[chperplt]

First of all, the FAA is not going to see any training records from your previous airline. The airline you failed out of will have copies of those failures in your training file. They aren't shared with the FAA unless you failed a certificate ride.

If your next airline wants to see those training records under the PRIA, then yes they will see them.

If you chose to not list them on your next 10 year work history, have a good story for your lack of employment during that period. Some employers won't accept more than a 30 days break between jobs without an explanation.

 

[azpilot]

Whether they can find out or not isn't the issue. I would be honest and tell them what happened. One of my fellow interviewers did this and was hired. He struggled through IOE for unknown reasons but is flying the line now. Another classmate was fired for lying in his application. So I would say honesty is the best policy.

 

[C425Driver]

A good friend of mine was in a similar position. He had several outside factors that were weighing on him while he was in training and he probably should have defered his class date. Anyway, he was not recommended for a checkride and was given the option of resigning without a derrogatory remark on his training record. He told me his training records say something like, "Did not complete training". He had to explain this in later interviews but he has since been hired somewhere else and is doing very well.

C425Driver

 

[Regional4life]

You have to be able to explain any lapses in employment. I know that you were released from training, but if possible, the best thing to do is submit a letter of resignation that is dated before any possible termination date, (if you can, get it notarized). That way you can always say that you resigned and were not fired.

 

[bigbird]

Maybe my airline pilot career is over...This really stinks because I know I could have passed the training. Just had problems at home and couldnt focus.

 

[LDavid]

I was hired by an airline earlier this year and didnt do so well during training. I had some distractions at home and just couldnt focus during the intiail F/O training. I failed my oral and they sent me home. I never took the final checkride. The chief of training told me that this didnt have to be shared with any future employers. I called the FAA and they didnt see any failed checkrides or anything from that airline. So do I need to bring this up in future interviews? Can this be found anywhere else? I would imagine that if it wasnt reported to the faa then I should just leave it alone and not bring it up during a interview. Any suggestions?

Just out of curiousity, did you recieve pay for your training? It seems that with some airlines you are not an official "employee" until you pass your checkride.

 

[Fly_Chick]

Maybe my airline pilot career is over...This really stinks because I know I could have passed the training. Just had problems at home and couldnt focus.

I do not have the experience to comment appropriately, yet I cannot belive your airline career is over. I do not and cannot believe you are the first person this has happened to.

I believe things happen for a reason, although we may not understand it now. Take each day at a time, each hour at a time. Tomorrow is another day, and things will seem better. Something else is waiting in the wings, something that you may not realize right now, yet will be there.

 

[Regional4life]

Maybe my airline pilot career is over...This really stinks because I know I could have passed the training. Just had problems at home and couldnt focus.

Bigbird,
I seriously doubt if your airline career is over. If you really had problems at home, reasonable people understand that. Have you ever seen the stress level chart? It talks about the greatest stressors in a person's life. Top 5 are something like death, divorce, job change, moving, child birth. If you had a legite reason to leave, and can explain it to your interviewer, you will be fine. All I can suggest is don't pass blame, don't make it look like someone's fault. Just say "I had a problem because of such and such and such". Some places might not take that. But trust me, there are good quality places that look at the big picture and say, "you know what, this guy shouldn't have been in training in the first place with everything going on and I can see why this happened." Just be honest, be ready to explain, and you will be fine. Truly, it's not the end. There are people with DUI's that get on and people who have wrecked airplanes that get on. There are people who can't pass one airline's training, but gained experience and knowledge, and was able to get through another's. Hang in there, don't give up just yet. But most importantly, take care of yourself and get in a good place that's right for you. May God bless and keep the blue side up.

 

[Captain Overs]

I would be honest. If you try and hide it it will come back to get you. Nobodys perfect and things happen. I think employers will appreciate your honesty.

 

[BlackPilot628]

Bigbird,
I seriously doubt if your airline career is over. If you really had problems at home, reasonable people understand that. Have you ever seen the stress level chart? It talks about the greatest stressors in a person's life. Top 5 are something like death, divorce, job change, moving, child birth. If you had a legite reason to leave, and can explain it to your interviewer, you will be fine. All I can suggest is don't pass blame, don't make it look like someone's fault. Just say "I had a problem because of such and such and such". Some places might not take that. But trust me, there are good quality places that look at the big picture and say, "you know what, this guy shouldn't have been in training in the first place with everything going on and I can see why this happened." Just be honest, be ready to explain, and you will be fine. Truly, it's not the end. There are people with DUI's that get on and people who have wrecked airplanes that get on. There are people who can't pass one airline's training, but gained experience and knowledge, and was able to get through another's. Hang in there, don't give up just yet. But most importantly, take care of yourself and get in a good place that's right for you. May God bless and keep the blue side up.

Excellent words of encouragement! Great Post!

Hang in there, you will do fine.

 

[Weasil]

Don't lie... you will get caught.

 

[LDavid]

Bigbird,

I dont know exactly how the record keeping works, but i don't think that this will be a problem for you in the future. Judging from your experience, we probably were at the same airline. Your airlne career is not over. Hang in there.

-LDavid

 

[Cosmo1999]

I was hired by an airline earlier this year and didnt do so well during training. I had some distractions at home and just couldnt focus during the intiail F/O training. I failed my oral and they sent me home. I never took the final checkride. The chief of training told me that this didnt have to be shared with any future employers. I called the FAA and they didnt see any failed checkrides or anything from that airline. So do I need to bring this up in future interviews? Can this be found anywhere else? I would imagine that if it wasnt reported to the faa then I should just leave it alone and not bring it up during a interview. Any suggestions?

Please just be honest about this. Sure you may not get caught but if you do then you have a lot more explaning to do than if you just say I went through training but I had xxx problems at home and couldnt focus clearly. Then tell them your situation is resolved, you now have a clear mind and are ready to finish training. The entire reason PRIA was created was because of things like this. Now I am almost positive that they do have PRIA records for you showing that you failed your oral. Any training done with an airline must be kept on record for 5 years. I honestly dont think they report that to the FAA however there is a file out there at the company that you were in training and left without completing it. I have looked at my PRIA file and it had a breakdown of the ground lessons covered, written exam results, how I did on my oral and checkrides/IOE. I have no idea how a company would be able to access this information without you telling them you worked there and filling out the form. I do know however that people have been burned in the past because of this exact same scenario. I am sure interviewers will understand that you are a human being and were just going through a rough time. It is amazing what background companies can dig up on you... Just remember if you were honest about then you can sleep a lot easier at night. In the end it is your choice just ask yourself this. Is it worth gambling your career for this? good luck

 

[PSAChiefPilots]

Also on post about "what is on PRIA?"

Just so you know,
On most applications it now states that "Have you ever withdrawn or Failed out of 121 training at another airline?" or something like it. Yes, Pria can only be requested from Airlines that are given to us but Gaps in employment can raise questions. We have later found out that people have failed training elsewhere and they can be terminated for not telling the truth on the application. When you sign the bottom of the application, you are stating that all information is true and correct.

Honesty is the best policy....I would rather explain it in an interview anyday than explain it on the way out the door.


We have hired people in your situation and I know others have done the same.

Good Luck,
PSACPSP

 

[mrflier]

Coming from a union background, I am somewhat familiar with PRIA. I mostly agree with the previous posts so far. Here is what I know:

The bad news--
Yes, you need to report a failure in a 121 (or 142) training program. It is required under PRIA. Even though your former Training Director said this won't show up as derogatory, he is required by the PRIA (which is a federal law by the way) to report your training record, if asked.

Sure you could try to hide this (and there is a small possibility no one would find out), but most likely it would be uncovered in the background process.

The good news--
All the other posts have been very accurate. No one wants a training problem in their record, but you can overcome this. Be prepared to discuss this with your interview board. Tell them what you learned from the situation, how you would be more prepared this time, etc. You can turn this into a positive if you frame it correctly.

I know of several people with much worse events in their background that have gone on to become very successful pilots. There is no reason why you cannot share the same result.

Keep your chin up!

--flier

 

[snap145]

these guys are all right on the money. I had somewhat of a similar situation. Had some family issues and ended up resigning on the second day of indoc on my first 121 job..Just be honest with them...I didnt flaunt it on ym resume...but dont closet it either.....If its brought up answer them honestly and directly...and remember most of these hr and tech peeps arent out to get you..if your there for the interview...your qualified for the job..im extremely happy it happened actually...im much happier now...good luck..keep pluggin away and youll land on your feet.

 

[SlapShot]

Regarding what can be seen on a PRIA depends on the form of record keeping a company has.

If a company still uses paper records, then a PRIA will show EVERYTHING in that person's training file. However most airlines have a form of computerized record keeping system. A PRIA report from this type of system usually shows only the bare minimum (i.e. S, U, P and the date of completion) of a particular training event.

 

[coolyokeluke]

Please just be honest about this. Sure you may not get caught but if you do then you have a lot more explaning to do than if you just say I went through training but I had xxx problems at home and couldnt focus clearly. Then tell them your situation is resolved, you now have a clear mind and are ready to finish training. The entire reason PRIA was created was because of things like this. Now I am almost positive that they do have PRIA records for you showing that you failed your oral. Any training done with an airline must be kept on record for 5 years. I honestly dont think they report that to the FAA however there is a file out there at the company that you were in training and left without completing it. I have looked at my PRIA file and it had a breakdown of the ground lessons covered, written exam results, how I did on my oral and checkrides/IOE. I have no idea how a company would be able to access this information without you telling them you worked there and filling out the form. I do know however that people have been burned in the past because of this exact same scenario. I am sure interviewers will understand that you are a human being and were just going through a rough time. It is amazing what background companies can dig up on you... Just remember if you were honest about then you can sleep a lot easier at night. In the end it is your choice just ask yourself this. Is it worth gambling your career for this? good luck

So does the PRIA file at a particular place that you were employed at go away at the five year mark? I thought that thing followed you around indefinitely. I hope it goes away. I was working for Ameriflight and screwed up, and one of the management guys went through my training file and wrote a thesis on why I should've never been allowed past training-and then put it in my training file. And if that wasn't enough he wrote a letter of reprimand to my instructors and put that in my file as well. I was not a bad student. Ameriflight only will write negative things in your training, no neutral or good comments. That way if you screw up they will be able to do a nasty write-up on you in order to limit their liability; that way if you went to another employer and messed up they couldn't come back to Ameriflight seeking damages for not providing info. I think that's an abuse of the PRIA system and I know of another individual it happened to at the same company. The good news is that I got another job, then once I had established employment for a year's time I interviewed at a quality company and explained what happened matter-of-factly and was hired anyway. So to the thread starting guy: you'll find another job if you want it bad enough, keep your chin up.

 

[chperplt]

So does the PRIA file at a particular place that you were employed at go away at the five year mark?

Your training records are your training records and should be kept forever. What happens to them after a company stops flying...who knows..

Most airlines only do a 10 year work history on you, so they will most likely only be requesting the PRIA for the last 10 years.

 

[airludy]

I dont think they can find out... If its not on your FAA records and you were never offically hired, plus you didnt take a checkride. Its not a type rating. Its up to you what you tell them.

 

[Weasil]

that's a rookie mistake. I've seen people get caught many many times... remember it's a small industry. All it takes is for one person to go, "hey I remember that guy from my last job" or something like that.

 

[sleddriver77]

You are entitled to a copy of any and all of your records from anyplace you have ever worked. I'd request a copy from the training department, and see exactly what the records say. At the next place you apply to, (depending upon what the records say) don't DENY having started training at XYZ airlines, but don't advertise that you washed out, either. They may have shown it as a withdrawl, you won't know till you see the records. FWIW, the PRIA only requires that a company keep training records for a pilot for 7 years after he last flew revenue there. We used to round-file the records for anybody that didn't get thru a checkride, and list them as a withdrawl to prospective employers. That is, unless they were an attitude problem, in which case we tried to make life REALLY difficult. Until you have a copy of the records, this is kind of a tough one to answer.

 

[Cosmo1999]

I dont think they can find out... If its not on your FAA records and you were never offically hired, plus you didnt take a checkride. Its not a type rating. Its up to you what you tell them.

You can try to justify it all you want but no matter what technicalities you use the bottom line is your lying to a potential employer. Your going to have to lie when you have to explain that gap in your employment. Your going to have to lie on your application where it asks if you have ever failed training from a 121 airline. Your going to have to have a personal reference lie for you to cover your gap in employment. Your going to have to lie when they ask why you quit your last flying job without having a job anywhere else. I dunno to me it seems like a lot of covering up for something thats not the end of the world. There are a lot of resourceful background companies that can dig up all kinds of dirt on people. Is it really worth risking your career over? Its always up to the person what to do, it is kind of concerning though. If someone is going to go through all this trouble to cover up something like this up what else could they try to hide in the future?

 

[Lineup&wt]

Here's a little twist on what this guys going through but just wanted to get a little more advise. I had a family emergency that I could'nt put to the wayside any longer. I past all test I was given but left durring systems. I like to give 110% in my training and line flying and i felt I could'nt do this. I did'nt want to cheat myself or the airline. I know this was touched on here briefly but I also feel this has made it almost impossible to continue on in this career.
Really quick I want to thank the PSA chiefs for that uplifting bit of advise last week.

 

[Lineup&wt]

Let me correct myself I withdrew/resigned