Calling ALL CFI's ....Double I's and all...

[CA1900]

You only fly a B1900 why would anyone including me read what you have to say!!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

:laugh:

Not anymore... but I do miss the ol' bird sometimes. Until I want a cup of coffee or need a bathroom-- then I don't miss it so much!

 

[VW Pilot]

To Nosehair: Well he's not an old guy...about 32 years old..He has about 800HRS......This is a 1982 Piper warrior...As I said before, I do try to understand that there may be some reason why he is stressing this. The FAA says, cleanup after crossing the line and safely stopped. After reading all the posts, seems to me that he has learned to fly some other plane that it might be necessary to retract the flaps on the landing roll and might think that this could apply to light trainers as well. I have not fired the guy either. You asked how I questioned this. Well I posted to see if anyone else was teaching this and could come up with some valid reasons for this procedure or what is now sort of like a technique and explain what he couldn't.....by the way thanks to everyone for answering. This info is greatly appreciated and if there is more..keep it coming.

 

[avbug]

Retracting flaps upon landing is a common technique I frequently use in some aircraft...particularly some conventional gear aircraft and when landing light airplanes in a crosswind or on rough fields. It's not something I teach to a primary student, but it's a valid technique and an appropriate one.

And yes, it works just fine in a husky or super cub.

It's standard practice for me, and most others I know, in ag aircraft; as soon as the mains are on the ground I retract the flaps. This allows the tailwheel to settle so I can get reverse and get slowed down without having to depend on the brakes for other than steering.

Retracting flaps after landing in a crosswind is also a useful technique for putting weight on the wheels faster and reducing the tendency to weathervane, especially in crosswinds that approach the aerodynamic capabilities of the airplane. I've found this to be especially true when landing a conventional gear airplane in a strong crosswind, and have found it necessary at times just to get the tail down in order to keep from groundlooping into the wind as rudder authority begins do die, as one slows down.

The flaps are tools to be used, and extended and retracted, as necessary.

In low altitude maneuvering in ag type aircraft, it's not uncommon to apply flaps as one enters a turn and retract them as one rolls out. Use flaps when you need them. Don't get tied into hard and fast rules about extention and retraction, because the "rules" vary with the type of aircraft, type of operation, and the conditions under which both are subject, at any given time.

 

[VW Pilot]

I talked again with him on this subject...Him being my Instructor. And he too uses this technique when flying Super Cubs...I found out he tows banners too.
Thanks for the explanation. Now that I understand what it's all about and that you do not teach this in your primary......

 

[svcta]

I did a lot of things towing banners that I wouldn't tell a primary student to do as standard policy. I've used the technique in Super Cubs, too, as indicated, but it does cause the airplane to make a abrupt turn in you just push the button and drop the handle. My point was that if you weren't expecting it and you were weak in the feet it may get ugly. So just throwing the flaps up because it's windy and you're in an airplane may cause you more problems than you had to begin with. Not a good idea to start dictating this to be good standard practice with no other considerations thrown in.

 

[sqwkvfr]

When you do a flight check the examiner is check that CFI is teachinf properly. When i gove a check ride, I know most of the guys that send me students and I know what to expect from them.

What i meant from my post was if this guy didn't come on here and ask, he woulda kept on doing it and went to his checkride. Maybe he would pass maybe not. I would not pass him for moving the flaps up on the roll.

Seriously, you would fail somebody for retracting the flaps on the landing roll?

I haven't read all of the comments on this thread so I don't know if I'm the first to say it, but that is just plain ludicrous.

I fully understand the merits of exiting the runway and then conducting after landing checks and personally discourage retracting on the landing roll unless required or heavy braking is required, but if an applicant can't handle retracting the flaps whilst on the runway, there are bigger issues to deal with.

I think that issuing a notice of disapproval for this alone is extremely unreasonable.

 

[nosehair]

I think that issuing a notice of disapproval for this alone is extremely unreasonable.

I don't believe it. I believe this to be one of those threatening myths to justify a popular procedure.

I just don't believe an examiner would/could fail an applicant, unless he/she nearly lost control whilst doing it. You never know what/how an applicant sees his/her momentary failing points.

 

[avbug]

I believe an examiner might fail a student for moving the flaps on the runway. In fact, I've no doubt that there are examiners out there who might do so.

I've no doubt there are examiners out there who would take the exorbitant fees they charge an applicant, fail them, and expect them to take the test again, in fact...for another exorbitant fee.

 

[brokeflyer]

Part of the PTS is check list usage. Nowhere does it say to retract the flaps on touchdown.

That 1 iteam may seem silly to all of you, but when someone deviates from it by moving the flaps up, what's to stop them from doing other things that are not on the checklist.

 

[sqwkvfr]

Part of the PTS is check list usage. Nowhere does it say to retract the flaps on touchdown.

That 1 iteam may seem silly to all of you, but when someone deviates from it by moving the flaps up, what's to stop them from doing other things that are not on the checklist.

I don't want to get into a whole semantics argument here, but I believe it's called the "after landing checklist," not the "cleared the runway across the hold short line and completely stopped checklist."

Again, I discourage students from retracting the flaps on the landing roll, but they've gotten plenty of practice doing so whilst conducting touch and goes and short field landings.

It certainly isn't an unsafe operation. I would have an extremely hard time using re-using an examiner who failed a student for doing so and passing it off as failure to properly use a checklist.

Absent any other deficiencies, I'd think that it would be more appropriate to use this as a debrief discussion topic, not an excuse to fail an applicant.