CAL System Bid soon?

[CAL EWR B737]

I thought those new reps up in Newark were going to change the world?

Maybe when the LEC officers go on trip loss to staff the new offices up there?

Has the EWR Captain rep quit in frustration yet?

Sincerely,

B. Franklin

We are not on any FPL, except when we go to MEC meetings. The way we get our FPL is akin to the way everyone goes to recurrent annual simulator training. Another words, when we do have FPL, it is another PBS pre constructed conflict and all the fun that goes along with your bid award that month.

We will not have any staff in our proposed office, only staffed by volunteer committee members.

No, I have not quit and I never will.

You may not like me, fine you have a right to your opinion and I respect your right. However, if you are going to take a shot at least have the balls to sign your name and not hide behind anonymity!


Jayson Baron
LEC 170 Chairman
Newark Captain Representative

 

[CAL EWR B737]

I thought those new reps up in Newark were going to change the world?

Maybe when the LEC officers go on trip loss to staff the new offices up there?

Has the EWR Captain rep quit in frustration yet?

Sincerely,

B. Franklin

I don't know if you are a CAL pilot, but here is a sample of what we put out each and every week. Yesterday I was in a very loud exchange with our EWR CPO. I know for a fact we have really pissed off the Vice President of Flight Ops.

Hey our pilots seen to like our comm.

“Our best days are ahead of us.” – Larry Kellner, CEO, March 6, 2009, during the Newark CEO Exchange.

This week’s Magenta Line is very late. It was stuck in legal review for almost 36 hours over a couple of items and was just released to us late this afternoon. It had to be re-edited for being a day late but it is out to you now. We received many, many calls and e-mails asking about the delay. Thank you for your patience.

A lot of the time, your Local Council Officers approach the new week with some nervousness. We kind of eye each other, all of us thinking the same thing: “How are we going to fill out The Magenta Line this week???” It usually goes like this:
“Kellner’s pay?”

“Already in.”

“Next meetings?”

“Done.”

“Scheduling atrocities?”

“Last week—and the week before—and next week.”

“Jeez—do we have anything this week?”

“Ah—you know—they always do something stupid.”

Yes, we know. Thank you, oh management, for your bountiful blessings this week.


Today is Thursday, April 30, 2009, and there are 11 items for discussion.


Item 1: SBR, LBS, PDQ?

At last week’s MEC meeting, your EWR Council 170 Officers killed what had become the Frankenstein’s Monster of representational schemes. Following the lead from your EWR representatives, SBR was tabled until the first regular MEC meeting following ratification of Contract ’08.

Although Seniority Block Representation began life as a good idea, since its introduction at the August 2008 MEC meeting, it has been tabled at meeting after meeting as its deficiencies came to light. We have listed below some of the problems with the SBR resolution as it currently exists, but probably the best and most overriding reason is that a complex change to our representational structure during Section 6 negotiations is not the best idea we’ve ever had. We know this news is likely disturbing to many of the pilots who voted for us and who favor SBR but in our best judgment we took the safest course for now.

Other problems with SBR (in no particular order):

First – All currently sitting representatives would be forced to run for re-election at once. This would effectively wipe out all of your newly-elected EWR reps and force all reps to focus on elections—and just as we enter a critical phase of contract negotiations when we should be watching management. From the November/December 2008 Air Line Pilot Magazine’s report on the ALPA BOD meeting in Las Vegas last October:

“The Committee recommends that four areas should be investigated for possible improvement.” One of the four recommendations, and the only one dealing with switching MEC representational structures, was this: “The option to switch from one MEC representational structure to another is accompanied by a requirement for new elections of status representatives. This may result in losing the MEC’s entire experience base at once and makes it difficult to provide continuity. Also the Committee felt the range of options available to large and small councils need to be fine-tuned to balance workload and representational requirements.” Dan Wenzel, CLE Captain representative, was a member of this delegate committee and participated in the discussion and debate.

Second – When SBR as a concept was first discussed, much of that initial discussion centered on the number of reps each base was entitled to. ALPA National was part of this discussion, as well, and recommended that EWR have 5 reps, IAH 4, and 1 each for CLE, GUM, and the Flight Instructors. At last week’s MEC meeting, your EWR representatives were told during the delegate committee meeting that due to new budget restrictions, EWR was now going to get 4 reps, IAH 3, and CLE, GUM, and the Flight Instructors 1 each.

The problem is that the initial decision called for a specific number of reps for each base. That decision was arrived at after much discussion, debate, and thought. It is not right that the number of reps should be hacked away by budgetary restrictions. Either 5 reps for EWR is correct or it is not. If it is not correct, and the correct number is actually 4, then this number must be arrived at by the same process as the original decision.

Third – Your LEC Officers were recently contacted by ALPA’s Special Representation and Structure Review Committee who offered to provide the MEC with a presentation comparing SBR with Large Base Status Representation. While your current representatives favor SBR, we would be far more comfortable knowing we had taken a good look at every option. We would like to schedule this presentation first, discuss the benefits and drawbacks, and then make a truly informed decision.

Fourth – We will not be rushed into any decisions. We have a rich history of doing just that and it has cost us dearly. While any one of the three factors listed above would be enough to make us pause, all of them together combined with a rush to get it done would be a recipe for disaster. Remember, no matter how much many of you want SBR, it has to be the right SBR and not just some pig with SBR painted on the side. Once we vote for it, we will have to live with SBR for a very long time. Let’s take a little time today to make sure we get it right for tomorrow.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Item 2: Attack of the 64 Year-Old “Test Pilot”

What Magenta Line would be complete without another chapter in the ongoing saga of The Friends of Fred? You don’t need to answer, it was a rhetorical question.

This week’s tale concerns one of our “Test Pilots” (you know, those guys doing the ferrying and test hops that we should have the option of doing?) and his trip to Stockholm in February just prior to his 65th birthday. “65th birthday?” you say. “How can a guy who was well-over 60 when the age-65 law was passed be doing that?” you ask. Another question you might ask is why, at the very least, was this trip not flown completely by management pilots instead of the two line-slug First Officers who got stuck with this?

The answer to this question is simple: Our Vice President of Flight Operations, instead of treating our contract as a deal among honorable men, treated our contract as something akin to toilet paper, hanging from a roll in the executive washroom, there whenever Flight Operations management needs to clean up a mess. Honoring our contract certainly pales in comparison to giving one of his pals a revenue trip even though this pal hadn’t flown a revenue trip in many years. Honoring our contract also took a back seat when it came to the two line-qualified non-management First Officers who now had to babysit this boondoggle all night across the North Atlantic.

Sadly, the proposed remedy—buying both First Officers a trip at a later date—was the settlement offer from Captain Fred—and it was accepted. A resolution dealing with this incident and proposing much sterner action by your union was drafted. Sadly, it exited the delegate committee with a “no action” recommendation and was later withdrawn in open session by the maker.

Your EWR reps disagree with this outcome but respect the process of debate as it was carried out.

Our special thanks to our former representatives Captain Al Brandano and First Officer Kate Malone. They were on top of this situation prior to our taking office and did an exemplary job in bringing this blatant contract violation to light.


Item 3:Houston Shareholder’s Meeting June 10th—YOU MUST ATTEND!

Our first unity event of 2009 is coming. It is critical to the success of our Contract ’08 efforts that you attend! If you liked the spirit of last year’s Wall Street and Smith Street events, this is an event you must attend. Missed your chance last year to not shake Mr. Kellner’s hand? This is your opportunity to say, “No, thanks!” Missed your shot last year to roast under the Houston sun or freeze in the New York cold while wearing out your shoe leather? Come and show your mettle.

As an additional incentive, there is a friendly wager (100 bucks worth) between our Council Chairman, Captain Jayson Baron, and the Chairman of the Houston Council, Captain Wayde Beckman. Captain Beckman claims that more Houston pilots will turn out for this event than Newark pilots. While Captain Beckman may have home-field advantage for this one, nobody supports the union like Newark! So, our pride and prestige (not to mention 100 bucks) is on the line. If you know Captain Baron, you know he likes his, uh, lagniappe. So, let’s keep it interesting and keep the 100 smackers in Newark.

Sign-up details are forthcoming. Be ready. We want and need massive participation.


Item 4: Just When You Thought it Was Safe to Go to Mexico City…

If you visit to Mexico City
You won’t find it very pretty
Empty streets, abandoned thoroughfares
It’s all because you can’t breathe the air

Swine flu, oh, swine flu
You can cover your face with a mask
And hold your breath until you have to gasp

Cover yourself with anti-viral gel
And welcome to your own slice of hell
Make sure you keep them all six feet away
To leave alive you may have to pray

Swine flu, oh, swine flu
You can wear your new latex gloves
And still contract something momma won’t love

Our thanks (and apologies) to Tom Lehrer for our take on his song, “Pollution”. And they said MIT graduates couldn’t play the piano.

This potential pandemic is changing by the hour. Two days ago, California Governor Schwarzenegger declared a state of emergency, Cuba banned flights from Mexico, and one airline had a flight from Mexico quarantined in Baltimore.

Your Council 170 Officers remind you that YOU are the final authority as to the safe operation of your flight. If you cannot ensure the safety of your passengers and crew and you make a decision based upon fact and reason, you will have the full support of the Air Line Pilots Association, International.

Please monitor all communications from both your CAL MEC and ALPA National for the latest information. The following link contains the latest guidance from the Centers for Disease Control for flight crews:

http://www.alpa.org/DesktopModules/ALPA_Documents/ALPA_DocumentsView.aspx?itemid=18627&ModuleId=2044&Tabid=256

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Item 5: Engine Burns—and the Crew Turns

Last Sunday afternoon, one of our 757-300’s lit up the sky over Newark after a catastrophic engine failure and resulting engine fire shortly after takeoff. This flight, every seat full and with sufficient fuel to operate EWR-SFO as scheduled, instead made a quick trip around the patch and landed overweight, blowing a tire on the rollout.

Our admiration and respect for this crew is boundless. Sully landed in the water and became a hero. Our guys landed at the airport and brought us back an airplane we could use again. While their adventure is nowhere near as dramatic as Captain Sullenberger’s, they are heroes, too. From takeoff to touchdown, their hero’s journey lasted just twelve minutes—twelve minutes in which every indicator they had on board told them they were still on fire.

Every day, thousands of our pilots go to work, operate hundreds of millions of dollars of equipment and assume potentially billions of dollars of liability, and they do this safely and efficiently. When their day is finished, they head to the layover hotel without fanfare. We—all of us—are “everyday heroes”; we keep the airline safe and on schedule—and we do it every single day of the year.

So, when our crew, who just pulled off for real what most of us only train for in a simulator, got back to the terminal, what do you think was waiting for them? A hero’s thanks from over 200 passengers? Sure. Hugs from the Flight Attendants? You bet. Management representatives showering them with gratitude for their outstanding performance? Absolutely—if they had been Flight Attendants. The Flight Attendant’s supervisors met them at the gate.

Once again, flight operations management showed every one of us what they think of us—by not showing up. Just to make this story perfect—because you couldn’t possibly make it up—when the Captain and First Officer made their way to operations to file a Captain’s Irregularity Report for the outstanding job they had just completed, the first thing that greeted them when they signed in to CCS was a pairing modification notice—letting them know that they’d already been reassigned to another aircraft to continue their trip to SFO.

Yes, management never gave the slightest thought to letting this crew go to the hotel and call it a night; their only thought was, “Gee…how much duty time do they have left?”

Now, in fairness to management, this crew did opt to continue to SFO. However, this should not be the crew’s call to make. What would happen if this crew experienced another emergency with their new airplane? Would they perform at peak level? Or would the adrenaline-high they were coming down from have bottomed when they needed it most?

We are going to preach now: In circumstances like this, the first call you make after calling your family should be to your union! With union involvement this crew would have gone nowhere that night but to a nice hotel to relax and recap the day’s events over dinner.

In case of an Accident/Serious Incident, or Time Critical Safety Event, call​

Continental MEC Worldwide Emergency Response Hotline: 1.888.990.4227​

or call​

ALPA Worldwide Accident Hotline: 1.202.797.4180​

Oh, by the way, despite leaving EWR for SFO many hours late and with an ETA in SFO of 0400 EDT, this crew did not receive one single phone call, email, or visit from anyone in Flight Operations management checking on their welfare or congratulating them for a job well-done.


Item 6: Working Together, uh, Doesn’t Work—With Scheduling, Anyway

One of our pilots had been flying the same trip all month—EWR-SFO with the redeye return. He should have known that adding vacation to this mix was a fail.

The short version of the story is that due to a late redeye arrival, all our pilot needed to keep his trip and his vacation intact was to show FOUR MINUTES later than he was scheduled to that night, something scheduling had worked with him on previously that month. Instead, scheduling chose a solution that messed up his vacation, cost the company an additional $850, left reserves sitting who could have easily flown this reassignment, and cemented this pilot’s relationship with his union.

We thank you.


Item 7: EWR Chief Pilot Geoff Bender Gets an "A"

One of our pilots found himself in a very unfortunate position this week. The details are not important—but the actions of EWR Assistant Chief Pilot Geoff Bender are.

Our pilot needed to be removed from flying immediately to attend to some very serious family issues and contacted one of your Local Council Officers. Within minutes of our call to Captain Bender to advise him of this situation, he had removed our pilot from his flying and assured him that he was there to offer any assistance he could.

Several of our EWR-based pilots have informed us that this is not the first time Captain Bender has gone above and beyond to assist one of our pilots in need of a hand.

Thank you, Captain Bender, from your EWR Local Council Officers, for a job well-done.


Item 8: The Resolution of Your Resolutions

As many of you know, if you want to get anything done around here, you gotta pass a resolution directing your Local Council Officers to act.

At last month’s Local Council meeting, we were presented with 6 resolutions to carry up to the MEC. They were resolved as follows:

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Resolution to purge the meeting record of the Article 8 charges and revocation of the letter of confidentiality of former LC 171 Secretary-Treasurer Chris Urquieta.

Resolution: Take no action

Explanation: Both of these actions were taken by the MEC in a meeting last year. The meeting record accurately records both the imposition and the rescinding of the Article 8 charges and the revocation and restoration of Captain Urquieta’s letter of confidentiality. An official record cannot be retroactively altered and, thus, Captain Urquieta could not legally get the remedy he was seeking.

While we cannot change the record we can say this: Chris Urquieta shares the very same core trade unionist values of your current LEC 170 Officers. We thank Chris Urquieta for his outstanding service as the former LEC 171 Secretary/Treasurer. We are proud to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Chris Urquieta as we battle together the true enemy during contract 08 negotiations, Continental management.

Resolution to bring Article 8 charges against the Vice-President of Flight Operations, the Senior Manager of Pilot Contract Administration, and the Manager of Pilot Relations.

Resolution: Take no action

Explanation: Pending legal review of this resolution by ALPA National, we are unable to provide an explanation at this time. We will publish the results of the legal review as soon as possible.

Resolution to implement CrewPass.

Resolution: Broken into 2 separate resolutions. Both passed

Explanation: The first resolution was to urge ALPA to work more closely with TSA to bring full and immediate implementation of CrewPass.

The second resolution was to urge ALPA to overturn the TSA requirement that crew members be in uniform to use the CrewPass checkpoint.

Resolution to eliminate the secret ballot from the CAL MEC Policy Manual.

Resolution: Tabled to the next MEC meeting for legal review.

Resolution to form the Critical Incident Response Team.

Resolution: Passed. Captain Gwen Schallow named Interim Chairman by Captain Pierce and approved by the MEC.


Item 9: Mr. Kellner’s Pay Calculator

Mr. Kellner’s calculator slips to number 9 this week. He needs to thank his Flight Operations management team, his Crew Scheduling department, swine flu, and a spectacular save by his pilots for his downgrade.

Still, all in all, Mr. Kellner continues to do well as we keep the airline safe and on time for him. Just as we will for whoever ultimately replaces him—and whoever replaces that guy, etc.

According to Forbes Magazine (April 30, 2008 issue) Mr. Kellner’s total compensation for 2007 was 10.3 million dollars. Extrapolating forward, this means that Mr. Kellner has made:

This week: $198,072.00
April 1, 2009 to date: $848,880.00
2009 year to date: $3,112,560.00

Be sure to drop a couple of quarters in Mr. Kellner’s collection can. The can may be found next to the cash register in Gordon’s Galley.


Item 10: Request for Committee Volunteers

All of our committees need volunteers. If you are one of the many somewhat selfish and untested among us, if you are interested in committee work, if you have special artistic talents of any kind, or if you just like to chew the legs off your dining room table, we want you to help your fellow EWR pilots. If you are interested or have previously expressed interest via e-mail or a phone call, please confirm your continuing interest in an e-mail to Captain Kaye Riggs, Secretary-Treasurer, LEC 170 at [email protected]. Please put your name and the word “Volunteer” in the subject line.


Item 11: Next Meetings

Please join us at our next local council meeting. Check back here in a couple of weeks for the date.

Our next MEC meeting has not yet been scheduled.


As we close this week, please remember our 147 hostages and their families.


“Our best days are ahead of us.” – Larry Kellner, CEO, March 6, 2009, during the Newark CEO Exchange.


Captain Jayson Baron, EWR Council 170 Chairman
[email protected]


First Officer Tara Cook, EWR Council 170 Vice Chairman
[email protected]


Captain Kaye Riggs, EWR Council 170 Secretary-Treasurer
[email protected]



Captain Kaye Riggs
Council 170 Secretary/Treasurer
Director of Communications

 

[ATRCA]

I am very confident in the capabilities of the EWR LEC. Unfortunately it's only one LEC. I'm not 100% sure yet that the MEC leadership will demonstrate the intestinal fortitude necessary to speak out against the abuses of fellow pilots who undermine our collective goals.

I'm sure there are M and G numbers abusing OT or VJM'img. In the end, a public campaign against such abuses is needed. Additionally no company should ever be permitted to JM or roll days while pilots are on furlough. The entire concept of "minimum coverage" is lost at CAL. Minimum coverage as they see it nothing more than a trigger to terminate certain contract provisions as it pertains to trades, drops and other schedule mods.

 

[4got2flare]

Still waiting for a number. You said I would be amazed.... If you want me to do my own research and come up with a number myself don't act or imply that you have one to give. I don't watch the 75/76, I am on the 737.

LTVRF was an option for everyone. I didn't ask planning for their opinion of how it would work. I asked the guys in IAH who work for us. So far, everything has been spot on. I could only wish I didin't make the cut for LTVRF as you say, that means all would be on property and we would not be having this discussion.

I'm am also very disappointed in anyone who will cry poor themselves to put someone out on the street. I don't have a side job/business. I have bills to pay just like you. So do the guys on furlough, so does everyone who lives. I choose to live within my means and if that means putting off some events in my life to attempt to keep a guy off the street and on property then that is what I have to do. I'm not special, rich, or living on someone elses dime. Just doing what I feel is right......

If 588 more pilots applied to be in the program not a single guy would be on the street. Something for everyone to think about. 75% skd, 20 days off, and everyone stays........ Hrmmm for some that is just to much to ask I guess.

Pilots are their own worst enemy when it comes to this job. They want only for them, when its their turn at the bottom of the barrel they point that everyone else is screwing them. When they are above the furlough line its all about me and money and happy to do as they please. I see the same at every carrier, CAL is not unique...

The argument of I can't afford a hit to keep others employeed, it's everyones elses problem not mine, and I just can't afford it, has no merit with me.

 

[whatitdoing?]

God you're exhausting. Look it up man, it ain't hard. And save your high and mighty speech, I've done a lot of things in my professional life for furloughed pilots and ones on strike. You don't know anything about me. As far as the money issue, you're obviously an idiot. Some people in the REAL world have obligations....some more than others. This isn't a case where I've been loose with my money, I have family issues that require my assistance. Life throws you curve balls and sometimes you have to look after yourself and your family before a pilot getting furloughed. I researched taking LTVRF, but I felt there weren't safeguards in place, so I avoided it. I called the union many times and they didn't have the answers either. There was too much risk for me and my issues at home. Point is I tried, but I couldn't. Just save the speech man........move along.

 

[whatitdoing?]

I am very confident in the capabilities of the EWR LEC. Unfortunately it's only one LEC. I'm not 100% sure yet that the MEC leadership will demonstrate the intestinal fortitude necessary to speak out against the abuses of fellow pilots who undermine our collective goals.

I'm sure there are M and G numbers abusing OT or VJM'img. In the end, a public campaign against such abuses is needed. Additionally no company should ever be permitted to JM or roll days while pilots are on furlough. The entire concept of "minimum coverage" is lost at CAL. Minimum coverage as they see it nothing more than a trigger to terminate certain contract provisions as it pertains to trades, drops and other schedule mods.

There needs to be a staffing ratio. The reason why things are so bad and we're abused so much is because of POS 02. Plain and simple. We also need to BAN open time pickups, but there's nothing in POS 02 that prevents it. You also can't confront a pilot because more than likely, they'll run to a CP and then you're getting fired or suspended for harrassment. So what do we do? Education!! But you have to dance a fine line with that. You can't harrass or intimidate the pilots.

 

[4got2flare]

God you're exhausting. Look it up man, it ain't hard. And save your high and mighty speech, I've done a lot of things in my professional life for furloughed pilots and ones on strike. You don't know anything about me. As far as the money issue, you're obviously an idiot. Some people in the REAL world have obligations....some more than others. This isn't a case where I've been loose with my money, I have family issues that require my assistance. Life throws you curve balls and sometimes you have to look after yourself and your family before a pilot getting furloughed. I researched taking LTVRF, but I felt there weren't safeguards in place, so I avoided it. I called the union many times and they didn't have the answers either. There was too much risk for me and my issues at home. Point is I tried, but I couldn't. Just save the speech man........move along.

I find this amusing and very sad....

I am exhausting and as you say an idiot yet we are on the same side of the argument.
Your are correct I don't know you or your situation much like you don't know everyone on property and their situation.

Problem is everyone has an issue or situation.
Everyone has an excuse. It's the contract, no it's the wage, no it's uhhhh something but it's not me!
You need the full skd to live. OK, well your buddy needs all the open time he can get to live. Are the two of you different? You say he is wrong for greed picking up the time yet in a way if you both need the money and can't adjust your lifestyle, are you that different?

Everyone has bills, Everyone has Debt, Everyone has problems. Its a choice you make..... Please explain how I'm the idiot for not living pay check to pay check on 3rd year pay on LTVRF? Please tell us all how being financially responsible is being stupid or is that again too exhausting....

This whole thing started because you said I'd be amazed, or we as a group would be. I'm still waiting to be amazed. Wow'ed if you will. Instead I've found someone who would like to throw stones for someones actions yet won't take responsibility for their own.

The contract needs to limit flying credit at 80-85 hours for all pilots in the event of a furlough. No more for anyone in any category. That is it. No open time, no greed, a straight limit for all. Everyone must tighten their belts together. Sad thing again when we have to write a contract to protect us from our own.....

 

[nimtz]

Flare,

With all do respect, I couldn't afford LTVRF living in the Northeast. Our pay is paltry enough as it is without whacking off 10-15 hours every month. Glad you can do it, but years 1-5 pay goes no where in the NYC metro area.

I fly a LOW line value and pick up ADV when I need the cash. At no point in time do I have to pick up open time. So as a regular line holder, I play the game far better for a furloughee then someone scooping up open time. After all these guys are bailing out day to day staffing, which is paltry as usual.

The company was going to furlough no matter what, that much was fairly clear. Quite frankly even without the oil spike last summer, CAL probably would of axed guys in the late fall enlight of the credit bubble burst. Not saying I agree with that, but knowing our been counters that seems likely.

As to the other subject, yes G/M guys are picking up open time and probably will take VJM assignments this summer. It is not an epidemic like the scab heroes, but it is very discouraging. So we continue on with paper thin staffing that is only saved by the fact we have enough self serving losers in our group.

 

[whatitdoing?]

Flare,

With all do respect, I couldn't afford LTVRF living in the Northeast. Our pay is paltry enough as it is without whacking off 10-15 hours every month. Glad you can do it, but years 1-5 pay goes no where in the NYC metro area.

I fly a LOW line value and pick up ADV when I need the cash. At no point in time do I have to pick up open time. So as a regular line holder, I play the game far better for a furloughee then someone scooping up open time. After all these guys are bailing out day to day staffing, which is paltry as usual.

The company was going to furlough no matter what, that much was fairly clear. Quite frankly even without the oil spike last summer, CAL probably would of axed guys in the late fall enlight of the credit bubble burst. Not saying I agree with that, but knowing our been counters that seems likely.

As to the other subject, yes G/M guys are picking up open time and probably will take VJM assignments this summer. It is not an epidemic like the scab heroes, but it is very discouraging. So we continue on with paper thin staffing that is only saved by the fact we have enough self serving losers in our group.

Exactly my point. Everyone knows G and M numbers are actively pickup up open time. Apparently you're just an arse that likes the argument. As far as the idiot comment, I stand by it. Just because you're able to do it, doesn't mean that everyone else can. Apparently you have no concept of what I'm talking about. It doesn't mean I'm financially irresponsible, it just means my situation is different. Years 1-5 is a joke in regards to pay. Year 1 will put you in a terrible financial situation and then after that, you're paying back what you borrowed. Everything looks doable on paper, but it's one thing to actually do it. Listen Flare, we're on the same page here. We just see it differently. I've never picked up open time and I only trade things out for better trips. I'll pick up ADVS trips that work for me, but that's its. I have a question for you. How am I suppose to drop any of my trips when PBS gives me a 90+ hour line? There's no coverage and as you know, I must have 1 above min coverage to do that. So boy genius, how can I do anything? Ya ya, the contract. No s***, but that's why we're in negotiations. Anyhow, I'm done discussing this with you.

 

[whatitdoing?]

I find this amusing and very sad....

I am exhausting and as you say an idiot yet we are on the same side of the argument.
Your are correct I don't know you or your situation much like you don't know everyone on property and their situation.

Problem is everyone has an issue or situation.
Everyone has an excuse. It's the contract, no it's the wage, no it's uhhhh something but it's not me!
You need the full skd to live. OK, well your buddy needs all the open time he can get to live. Are the two of you different? You say he is wrong for greed picking up the time yet in a way if you both need the money and can't adjust your lifestyle, are you that different?

Everyone has bills, Everyone has Debt, Everyone has problems. Its a choice you make..... Please explain how I'm the idiot for not living pay check to pay check on 3rd year pay on LTVRF? Please tell us all how being financially responsible is being stupid or is that again too exhausting....

This whole thing started because you said I'd be amazed, or we as a group would be. I'm still waiting to be amazed. Wow'ed if you will. Instead I've found someone who would like to throw stones for someones actions yet won't take responsibility for their own.

The contract needs to limit flying credit at 80-85 hours for all pilots in the event of a furlough. No more for anyone in any category. That is it. No open time, no greed, a straight limit for all. Everyone must tighten their belts together. Sad thing again when we have to write a contract to protect us from our own.....

The idiot comment is in regards to your obvious lack of understanding that others have different situations. You call it an excuse....I call it reality. CAL was going to furlough no matter what. They wanted hostages. As far as the number of G and M numbers....jesus you must be slow. Look it up man and you'll be suprised at how many we have that are doing it. You're like an immature 12 year old. As far as limiting it to 80 hours during furlough...uuhh, we should limit it to that anyway. Any hour over that is 1 1/2 times your pay. But this argument is pointless. It's not in our current contract, so why are we debating this? Anyhow, I feel like I'm debating my next door neighbor's 5 year old about Barney or something.

 

[A19]

G's and M's are picking up open time. I sit reserve in Guam and watch the open time daily, just to see which trips I might get assigned. I can tell you for a fact that they are doing it and it sickens me. I've been assigned trips only to have scheduling call me back later, telling me don't worry about that trip someone picked it up.

 

[4got2flare]

Boy Genius, Slow, Idiot... I'm the five year old, seriously... I really thought we stopped the whole name calling thing in elementary school. Do you write on the bathroom walls to?

You really debate with a five year old about Barney? Really?

 

[whatitdoing?]

LOL...that all you got real man of genius?

 

[RSRVWINDSURFR]

As far as limiting it to 80 hours during furlough...uuhh, we should limit it to that anyway. Any hour over that is 1 1/2 times your pay.

Uhhhh, yeah.... THAT would really fix things around here.... They could furlough 500 more with that incentive to fly over 80 hours.. Greedy M.F.s around here....

Also, M guys have the crappiest schedules, so many, like myself, advertise our junk away, and then rebuild our scheds with open time. It's pretty impossible to see who is actually whoring themselves out, and who is just replacing what they gave away.

 

[T Bone]

Have you guys looked at how many pilots waive credit on the monthly bids, some waiving up to 30 hrs especially during vacation months. This is just as bad as picking up open time. Where is the list of pilots who didn't take all their vacation? I am sure the 147 would love to thank them personally for saving the company again.

Jayson would love some guidance from the union, all of my other friends at other carriers with furloughed pilots seem to get it. The legacy of the scabs extends why past the 83 hires.

 

[HHH]

Just read this on another thread...any solid news? Recalls?

Back to the original topic of this thread..any news?

 

[whatitdoing?]

Uhhhh, yeah.... THAT would really fix things around here.... They could furlough 500 more with that incentive to fly over 80 hours.. Greedy M.F.s around here....

Also, M guys have the crappiest schedules, so many, like myself, advertise our junk away, and then rebuild our scheds with open time. It's pretty impossible to see who is actually whoring themselves out, and who is just replacing what they gave away.

I agree with what you're saying, but by capping PBS to a lower line value, it'll result in more flying being available for lower paid pilots. I'm not talking about pilots bringing up their line values, I"m talking about PBS awarded schedules over 80 hours. The company would rather have a 30 dollar an hour pilot flying 80 hours than a 88 dollar an hour pilot picking up opentime for 132 dollars an hour when they're over 80 hours. If you take away the incentive to pick up opentime and you have a union that is very aggressive with putting pilots in their place when they do step over the line, then the problem is solved. The only way we'll put an end to it is by putting it in our contract and damaging a pilot's reputation amongst his peers.