CAL SCOPE meaningless if not able to defend it!

[luckytohaveajob]

CAL ALPA claims to have the best scope in the industry yet unless CAL ALPA can defend the current agreement CAL ALPA does not have jack.

So what does CAL ALPA and the CAL pilots bring to the table? Nothing!

CAL has crap post 911 pay rates, no work rules, and poor benefits with high employee costs. CAL ALPA has been unsuccessful in renegotiating an expired concessionary deal and takes whatever management dishes out.

I was just reading on the LCC forum and found a quote by a pilot who got it.

"Come on NOW!!!! it does Not matter what the HOURLY IS!!
What counts it the take home. Benefits, insurance, retirement, sick time, vacation, scheduling. all those add up.
how much cash for how much time from home. Compare apples to apples. "


CAL ALPA has a regional jet contract.

 

[SFR]

Exactly.... Now if you really want techniques to stick it to management, send me a private mail and I will tell you what works. Leave the 95% useless busy work to the union folks...

 

[Yuppyguppy]

exactly.... Now if you really want techniques to stick it to management, send me a private mail and i will tell you what works. Leave the 95% useless busy work to the union folks...

shut your mouth you idiot!

 

[SFR]

shut your mouth you idiot!

ok, then don't find out what works.... I don't care


continue to complain about everything all the time and talk about the contract with the captains while wearing the FUPM bracelet (if those are still around).



DONT JUST DO SOMETHING, SIT THERE...

 

[sleeves]

CAL ALPA claims to have the best scope in the industry yet unless CAL ALPA can defend the current agreement CAL ALPA does not have jack.

So what does CAL ALPA and the CAL pilots bring to the table? Nothing!

CAL has crap post 911 pay rates, no work rules, and poor benefits with high employee costs. CAL ALPA has been unsuccessful in renegotiating an expired concessionary deal and takes whatever management dishes out.

I was just reading on the LCC forum and found a quote by a pilot who got it.

"Come on NOW!!!! it does Not matter what the HOURLY IS!!
What counts it the take home. Benefits, insurance, retirement, sick time, vacation, scheduling. all those add up.
how much cash for how much time from home. Compare apples to apples. "


CAL ALPA has a regional jet contract.

Not sure what your point is. Am I suppost to be offended? I got news for ya, we did not ask for this merger. I would say 90% of us did not want it. The prospects of working with you make me want it even less.

 

[Ex737Driver]

.....CAL has crap post 911 pay rates, no work rules, and poor benefits with high employee costs..............


................CAL ALPA has been unsuccessful in renegotiating an expired concessionary deal and takes whatever management dishes out.

Question 1; How can you have regional pay rates, no work rules, and poor benefits and have high employee costs? That makes absolutely no sense. If you have the first, you have LOW employee costs. So which is it? And finally again, the pay rates are concessionary you dimwit. You really have no idea what that means do you? And since you work for a regional, please tell us how much better you are making out with your benefits and pay? You are a one trick pony, my dear. Get some new material and come back when you learn a thing or two.

Question 2; When exactly did negotiations for the new contract end? I must have missed that blast mail. Is there something that management has dished out that we have just "taken"? I find your lack of spinal fortitude on any matter concerning our contract disturbing and hope that you don't approach flying the same way you approach bitching, 1/2 assed. Move on little girl. You got passed over and no amount of finger pointing out others obvious shortcomings are going to make you feel any better.

 

[Draginass]

If CAL loses their scope, I think that is the death knell for and pretense that ALPA is viable. If scope falls, then ALPA is nothing more than a company union.

 

[JoeMerchant]

If CAL loses their scope, I think that is the death knell for and pretense that ALPA is viable. If scope falls, then ALPA is nothing more than a company union.

You're a little late Draginass...ALPA failed long ago.

 

[hockeypilot44]

You're a little late Draginass...ALPA failed long ago.

Not according to some Delta pilots on the other board. They think ALPA is still fixable. I don't know what world they live in.

 

[Jetjockey]

Not according to some Delta pilots on the other board. They think ALPA is still fixable. I don't know what world they live in.

Yeah, let's give up and let management do whatever they want. Let's become the abortion like USAPA. In-house like SWA? Oh wait, those nice little in house unions like APA and SWAPA come to ALPA for some resources.

Really. What's the solution?

 

[St. Nic]

Yeah, let's give up and let management do whatever they want. Let's become the abortion like USAPA. In-house like SWA? Oh wait, those nice little in house unions like APA and SWAPA come to ALPA for some resources.

Really. What's the solution?

Usapa has proven itself- a quantum leap above the fat-cat ALPO club WHICH GAVE SCOPE AWAY!!!
Let's take United, who handed the contract over to the pilots which resulted in massive furloughs? I'll give you a hint- it was the same group which did the exact same thing at USAirways!
Want another example? How about Northwest? Look what happened to their scope! There was and is no reason to give up scope. But ALPo sure has benefitted from the regional dues coming in. Kinda a conflict of interest don't ya think? It takes an independent union with independent resolve to fix this- just like what the USAir pilots did to protect seniority. Scope is no different!!!

 

[luckytohaveajob]

CAL has crap post 911 pay rates, no work rules, and poor benefits with high employee costs. CAL ALPA has been unsuccessful in renegotiating an expired concessionary deal and takes whatever management dishes out.

CAL ALPA has a regional jet contract.

For the reading impaired such as Ex737pilot let me clarify.

1) "CAL has crap post 911 pay rates"- means CAL 777's pay cap is $189 an hour when it should be over $250 an hour plus.

2) "No work rules"- CAL pilots think soft time is sitting on reserve not flying. CAL pilots have no idea what duty rigs are, soft pay is, or what a contract should and has in the past for other carriers been about.

3)"Poor benefits with high employee cost"- Health insurance, prescription drug insurance, life insurance, disability insurance, and retirement programs should all be ZERO cost to the employee with a benefit comparable to Fortune 100 companies.

CAL pilots flying a B777 who make less than SWA pilots flying 737's, working for every hour of pay and even working for free when duties require work without pay, and who pay the company over $500 per month for inferior benefits and fund their own retirement out of pocket are working at REGIONAL contract standards.

But most CAL pilots do not understand what was just said and will argue till blue in the face after 27 years of taking what they are given.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

CAL ALPA has no backbone for defending SCOPE.

 

[SFR]

For the reading impaired such as Ex737pilot let me clarify.

1) "CAL has crap post 911 pay rates"- means CAL 777's pay cap is $189 an hour when it should be over $250 an hour plus.

2) "No work rules"- CAL pilots think soft time is sitting on reserve not flying. CAL pilots have no idea what duty rigs are, soft pay is, or what a contract should and has in the past for other carriers been about.

3)"Poor benefits with high employee cost"- Health insurance, prescription drug insurance, life insurance, disability insurance, and retirement programs should all be ZERO cost to the employee with a benefit comparable to Fortune 100 companies.

CAL pilots flying a B777 who make less than SWA pilots flying 737's, working for every hour of pay and even working for free when duties require work without pay, and who pay the company over $500 per month for inferior benefits and fund their own retirement out of pocket are working at REGIONAL contract standards.

But most CAL pilots do not understand what was just said and will argue till blue in the face after 27 years of taking what they are given.

Why did you even apply to CAL? Sounds like you should have went to SWA so you can fly all the time.


I have a simple answer to your points and they are good points btw. The simple truth is that pay for this job has declined. The industry has drifted towards lower pay, our buying power as a pilot is probably half of what it was for a pilot in the 1980s for same seat/year.

My point, make the system work for YOU. There are so many ways to make money outside of flying in this new economy that you need to grasp those and build a nest egg outside of the cockpit. Do what lifehouse says, "Whatever it takes".

Only then will you be satisfied and at peace....

 

[acbarney]

3)"Poor benefits with high employee cost"- Health insurance, prescription drug insurance, life insurance, disability insurance, and retirement programs should all be ZERO cost to the employee with a benefit comparable to Fortune 100 companies.

While I would love to have all of these at zero cost, I've got news for you. My wife is an executive at a Fortune 50 company, We pay part of health, prescription (and its a drug company), life, and disability insurance costs. She has a DB plan, and a 401k with matching, so it's a hybrid plan.

Times they are a changin.

 

[SFR]

While I would love to have all of these at zero cost, I've got news for you. My wife is an executive at a Fortune 50 company, We pay part of health, prescription (and its a drug company), life, and disability insurance costs. She has a DB plan, and a 401k with matching, so it's a hybrid plan.

Times they are a changin.

Yup, thanks for the dose of reality. I actually wish that we would strike at CAL, I am curious to see what most of the pilots do for money. I would guess that 70% would be broke within 2 months.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

CAL pilots are management wannabe's.

I want .... but .....

But, but, but is the reason a CAL pilot will never be a real unionist.

Past free benefits and pay did not happen because the pilots tried to understand managements positions by playing the devils advocate.

 

[jbDC9]

CAL pilots are management wannabe's.

I want .... but .....

But, but, but is the reason a CAL pilot will never be a real unionist.

Not this CAL pilot you jacka$$.

I've looked through your recent posting history and it seems like every post you make is on a CAL related thread and you're bashing CAL pilots. WTF? Why so much hate? Did you interview and get shot down? Are you PoconoPilot with a new screen name? Quit painting all CAL pilots with such a broad and negative brush. Rip on the scabs if you like, but I for one want a real contract and am ready for a strike to get it.

 

[Flyforyou]

Not this CAL pilot you jacka$$.

I've looked through your recent posting history and it seems like every post you make is on a CAL related thread and you're bashing CAL pilots. WTF? Why so much hate? Did you interview and get shot down? Are you PoconoPilot with a new screen name? Quit painting all CAL pilots with such a broad and negative brush. Rip on the scabs if you like, but I for one want a real contract and am ready for a strike to get it.

+1. Ready to walk.

 

[acbarney]

CAL pilots are management wannabe's.

I want .... but .....

But, but, but is the reason a CAL pilot will never be a real unionist.

Past free benefits and pay did not happen because the pilots tried to understand managements positions by playing the devils advocate.

Good morning genius.

You are the one who brought up all the "free bennies" fortune 100 companies give out. I was merely stating my experience with this. They are not "free" anymore, even for the execs. I do expect to have bennies equal to or better than what my wife currently has, a 50% or better pay (hourly) raise, and industry leading work rules.

I am ready, willing, and able to go out on strike for as long as necessary to achieve these goals.

 

[Bako Cap]

I don't think it would go all the way to a strike. I honestly believe UNICAL will be able to achieve a decent and respectable contract. It is in managements favor to have the JCBA hashed out as soon as possible, ready for the next upswing in the economy.

It might actually be foolish to strike with so many "have nots" willing to fly airbuses at $35 (FO) - $65 (CA) with likes of Skybus airlines, especially if the regional lifers see their QOL being destroyed by a new UNICAL contract.

 

[Jetjockey]

I don't think it would go all the way to a strike. I honestly believe UNICAL will be able to achieve a decent and respectable contract. It is in managements favor to have the JCBA hashed out as soon as possible, ready for the next upswing in the economy.

It might actually be foolish to strike with so many "have nots" willing to fly airbuses at $35 (FO) - $65 (CA) with likes of Skybus airlines, especially if the regional lifers see their QOL being destroyed by a new UNICAL contract.

There's always some less qualified jackwad willing to do the job for less. Suedo scabs if you will. Managment's wet dream puppets. Some believe they just aren't worth as much.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Nice to see some CAL pilots talking tough but we will see when push comes to shove.

It has been my recent experience CAL pilots do anything but talk tough. Usually they play the devils advocate and end the conversation taking managements position.

CAL ALPA does not talk tough. Jay Pierce does not inspire and the Magenta Line has lost all its color.

 

[mamba20]

Nice to see some CAL pilots talking tough but we will see when push comes to shove.

It has been my recent experience CAL pilots do anything but talk tough. Usually they play the devils advocate and end the conversation taking managements position.

CAL ALPA does not talk tough. Jay Pierce does not inspire and the Magenta Line has lost all its color.

Which is why we should decertify ALPA and go in house.

 

[Jetjockey]

Which is why we should decertify ALPA and go in house.

Stupid idea. Next.

 

[taxicabdriver]

If alpa isn't able to defend the contract then I'll be the first to sign to get rid of them

 

[mamba20]

If alpa isn't able to defend the contract then I'll be the first to sign to get rid of them

All they are doing is sending out blastmails and bag stickers. We need to dump them.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

You have got to wonder what UAL ALPA and CAL ALPA are doing?

The ORD rally is today and that is great. The EWR/IAH rally was great as well.

But why are the MEC chairman both Wendy and Jay's communications so lacking in fire? Where is the rage? Where is the anger?

CAL has a two year expired contract and it is my understand the EWR Captain Rep. doesn't care how long it takes to get a contract.

MEC leadership is where the buck stops and it is just not producing results.

 

[EWR_FO]

CAL has a two year expired contract and it is my understand the EWR Captain Rep. doesn't care how long it takes to get a contract.

I don't care how long it takes either. How did rushing to get a deal work out last time?

 

[bizicmo]

For the people that want a new union, what exactly will that do? The people that are in the leadership positions in UAL alpa and CAL alpa will just turn around and run for leadership in this new union. If the same people are in charge but under a different name how is that going to change anything?