Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

CAL RFP's 70 Seaters (turboprops)

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Hello,
I am not an expert, but I think it was only a matter of time before the airlines realized that they could no longer econically operate 50-seat RJs on routes of less than 300 miles. It is going to be interesting to see who bids on these proposals. I can't see Horizon or ASA bidding on the contracts for two distinctly different reasons. Horizon is wholly-owned by Alaska Air Group and their operations are primarily in the west coast and I think that they want to keep it that way. ASA on the other hand has unanswered labor questions, and my understanding is that the ATR was on it's way out, but I think it's been "on-it's-way-out" for 3 years now...Again, I merely speculating why these two companies will probably not bid.
The only airlines that will bid are airlines that are financially leveraged to come up with the capital required to purchase/lease the aircraft. Although, Bombardier/ATR may make the terms on a par with Airbus to get the orders. There are two airlines that come to mind simply because they already have operations in both areas in the RFP; Colgan and Commutair. Both already operate as CAL Connection, and have low-cost operations. It would be in the strategic interest of both of these companies to bid on the contract. If not,
someone else will and may very well run them both out of business in the long-term by expanding into their markets/codeshares offering newer aircraft and a better product.
Airlines and the airline customer will be facing a very different world as we enter the second half of the decade. Airlines will continue to reduce capacity and increase fares as a result of supply and demand. This is the only way that the yields off ticket sales will keep up with $70.00/barrel of oil. This reinforces the theory of modern technology turboprops. The flying public typically doesn't care what they fly on as long as it departs/arrives on time with their luggage. Airline managers need to drop the "seemless service" philosophy of having 100% jet service that typically isn't either seemless or good service.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead
 
JUst FYI, the CAL scope clause covers 51 seats and greater for jets and 79 seats and greater for turboprops.


1-4​


A. The Agreement covers all revenue, non-revenue, scheduled, nonscheduled and​


miscellaneous flying performed by or for the Company or a Company Affiliate, or for
Continental Micronesia, Inc. or any of its Affiliates, so long as the Company Controls Continental Micronesia, Inc. or any of its Affiliates, in either case other than:


1. Flying by other air carriers authorized by Part 4 or Part 5;
2. Flying by a Company Affiliate that is separately incorporated as a Domestic
Air Carrier operating solely Small Jets or Small Turboprops, or both; and
3. Flying by another air carrier while participating in a Complete Transaction in
accordance with Part 7 below.​


Y. "Small Jet" means jet aircraft with an FAA certification of fifty (50) or fewer seats.

Z. "Small Turboprop" means turboprop aircraft with an FAA certification of seventynine
(79) or fewer seats.​

 
Master Shake said:
I'll be interested to see how they try to circumvent the CAL pilots scope clause on that one. Now if mainline were to operate the Q400, that would be a boon for all of us.

Stay strong CAL pilots!



Yeah! Just like the Delta pilots did!
 
why do I find myself rooting for Colgan?!?

I think we should get a pool going. The winner(s) get to display any avaitar they want for 30 days.
 
Kaman said:
Hello,
I am not an expert, but I think it was only a matter of time before the airlines realized that they could no longer econically operate 50-seat RJs on routes of less than 300 miles. It is going to be interesting to see who bids on these proposals. I can't see Horizon or ASA bidding on the contracts for two distinctly different reasons. Horizon is wholly-owned by Alaska Air Group and their operations are primarily in the west coast and I think that they want to keep it that way. ASA on the other hand has unanswered labor questions, and my understanding is that the ATR was on it's way out, but I think it's been "on-it's-way-out" for 3 years now...Again, I merely speculating why these two companies will probably not bid.
The only airlines that will bid are airlines that are financially leveraged to come up with the capital required to purchase/lease the aircraft. Although, Bombardier/ATR may make the terms on a par with Airbus to get the orders. There are two airlines that come to mind simply because they already have operations in both areas in the RFP; Colgan and Commutair. Both already operate as CAL Connection, and have low-cost operations. It would be in the strategic interest of both of these companies to bid on the contract. If not,
someone else will and may very well run them both out of business in the long-term by expanding into their markets/codeshares offering newer aircraft and a better product.
Airlines and the airline customer will be facing a very different world as we enter the second half of the decade. Airlines will continue to reduce capacity and increase fares as a result of supply and demand. This is the only way that the yields off ticket sales will keep up with $70.00/barrel of oil. This reinforces the theory of modern technology turboprops. The flying public typically doesn't care what they fly on as long as it departs/arrives on time with their luggage. Airline managers need to drop the "seemless service" philosophy of having 100% jet service that typically isn't either seemless or good service.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

I could be wrong but it was said by the QX VP of Finance that these RFP's come across regional airline's desk's all the time. It is common for majors to put different types of flying out for bid. QX, for example did bid on the last RFP CAL put out which was awarded to Colgan. The QX CEO and VP Finance made it sound like they pretty much sport bid most RFP's they see. Delta, United, CAL, NWA, just in case something good like our F9 contract pops up. I don't think the RFP necessarily means the 70 seat turboprop flying will even happen. Just a thought by Continental.
As much as I personally dislike groan and droan of a Dash8 for more than 400 nautical miles I think management has realized the cost benefits of the turboprop are just too great and at the end of the day. The noise and slow speed are worth the extra coin as long as 80-90% of passengers buy tickets on price alone.
 
Last edited:
TEXAN AVIATOR said:
Considering Horizon and ASA are the only companies currently operating 70 seat props... I hope we at least put in a bid.

You left out Island Air in Hawaii. They fly Q400's.

-Neal
 
Kaman said:
Hello,
I am not an expert, but I think it was only a matter of time before the airlines realized that they could no longer econically operate 50-seat RJs on routes of less than 300 miles. It is going to be interesting to see who bids on these proposals. I can't see Horizon or ASA bidding on the contracts for two distinctly different reasons. Horizon is wholly-owned by Alaska Air Group and their operations are primarily in the west coast and I think that they want to keep it that way. ASA on the other hand has unanswered labor questions, and my understanding is that the ATR was on it's way out, but I think it's been "on-it's-way-out" for 3 years now...Again, I merely speculating why these two companies will probably not bid.
The only airlines that will bid are airlines that are financially leveraged to come up with the capital required to purchase/lease the aircraft. Although, Bombardier/ATR may make the terms on a par with Airbus to get the orders. There are two airlines that come to mind simply because they already have operations in both areas in the RFP; Colgan and Commutair. Both already operate as CAL Connection, and have low-cost operations. It would be in the strategic interest of both of these companies to bid on the contract. If not,
someone else will and may very well run them both out of business in the long-term by expanding into their markets/codeshares offering newer aircraft and a better product.
Airlines and the airline customer will be facing a very different world as we enter the second half of the decade. Airlines will continue to reduce capacity and increase fares as a result of supply and demand. This is the only way that the yields off ticket sales will keep up with $70.00/barrel of oil. This reinforces the theory of modern technology turboprops. The flying public typically doesn't care what they fly on as long as it departs/arrives on time with their luggage. Airline managers need to drop the "seemless service" philosophy of having 100% jet service that typically isn't either seemless or good service.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

Colgan needs to worry about more than bidding on new flying. They can hardly keep their a/c properly maintained as it is. The chickens will come home to roost for this organization b/c they simply are average in all areas. Rumors of Colgan going larger have been around since I came and went. Bottom line, they provide a below average service that would actually be worse if they weren't lucky enough to hire some good people. I just hope everyone safely makes it home at the end of the day. BTW, if you are such a turboprop / Colgan advocate, as most of your post indicate, why did you leave Colgan for PSA, only to return after an unsuccessful attempt at the jet? Is it b/c you truly believe the turboprop is best, or b/c that is where you have ended up? I only say this b/c I am sick and tired of everyone's perceived immortality when it comes to bashing the 50 seat operators. I think my company does a fantastic job, and as far as I am concerned, we are setting the bar pretty high on how to run an operationally efficient airline. And yes, polls have shown that the flying public hates flying on most t-props b/c they are so noisy. If they do, it is often out of necessity. All this being said, whatever will happen, will happen. I just fly the plane!
 

Latest posts

Latest resources

Back
Top