CAL pilots win 50+ seat scope ruling

[Whydoitry]

They already announced that the flying will still be done but only as UAX without CAL codeshares. (I don't know how to do links)

 

[s.o.sJTB]

Flying UAL 70's out of a non UAL hub and point to point flying is a violation of UAL scope.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

They should have just sold the 70 seat scope for more money.

 

[General Lee]

Yet to be seen.

We'll see the first punch UAL/CAL management lands in the next round, which will start soon I'm sure.

Or, do you think the fight is over and CALPA won?

No, I don't think CALPA won totally (the war vs a battle), but they made sure management knew that they think Scope is important, and enforceable. Looks like the arbitrator agrees. So, if they want to make nice and allow for more profits, they will do a joint contract and then move on to the SLI. That is how it works. Do it the USAir way, and that is how it turns into a nightmare. Simsack has to choose which way he wants to go. But, Scope doesn't seem like it is for sale.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[n52gp]

peanuclle,

fork yourself. happy new year by the way!

kb

 

[johnpeace]

But, Scope doesn't seem like it is for sale.

I guess not.

It seems to me like the history of the US airline industry, especially since deregulation, is a story of corporate interests walking all over their labor...no scheme is too unimaginable.

I'm interested to see the next play.

BTW, my perspective is from a career-changer to aviation probably too far along in life to be willing to make the jump to another airline...I fully expect ASA to be my last airline job. That said, the industry seems poised on the cusp of monumental change...so who knows what could happen. As volatile as things are, pretty much anything is possible.

<shrug>

The turbine keeps turnin'

 

[dojetdriver]

Lot's of very good CAL customers will not be happy. But, from what I gather on the frequent flyer boards, they are displeased with Jeff Smisek, not the pilots. They all know the company just made nearly a billion dollars in the third quarter. Instead of a DL/NWA transaction that went smooth, Jeff wants to pull a USAir type stunt. Well, he lost. Now CAL Elite customers and other upgradeable customers will be back in the 50 seaters. Lot's of good corporate customers who are not pleased will want to know what Jeff's next move is. It's pretty clear he screwed up even trying this stunt in the first place...

Probably no less unhappy than when Gordon decided to make the Continental Express side 275 (-1) airframes and basically have just about 50% of the flying done on RJ's all in the name of an "all jet/seamless" customer experience.

Or when Larry "the horsetooth" Kellner made the decision to remove 69 airplanes from what Gordon worked so hard to create, and replace them with an operator that didn't have the airframes to fly it. As well as experienced a slew of operational hurdles by pulling old airframes out of the desert, getting them on the certificate, having poor performance numbers as far as completion factor/bumped revenue goes. Etc, etc, etc.....

They should have just sold the 70 seat scope for more money.

Dude, is posting all the obvious flamebait you've been doing here lately some weird recreational outlet for you? Or are you intentionally trying to become General Lee Jr.?

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Dude, is posting all the obvious flamebait you've been doing here lately some weird recreational outlet for you? Or are you intentionally trying to become General Lee Jr.?

Flamebait? I just want to make the most money I can in this career and fly the big airplanes.

 

[dojetdriver]

Flamebait? I just want to make the most money I can in this career and fly the big airplanes.

You're less than straight.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

You're less than straight.

happy new year, honey. Hugs and kisses!

 

[dojetdriver]

happy new year, honey. Hugs and kisses!

Right back at ya sugar britches.

 

[Freedom]

Did I not suggest this already on Page 1?????

They already announced that the flying will still be done but only as UAX without CAL codeshares. (I don't know how to do links)

The Continental Customers will get wind of this soon enough (at least the high priced business customers), and they will simply book through United.

Continental Pilots gained nothing.

Yup you can call it a victory, but as long as those 70 seat RJs are still carrying what would have been Continental Customers, now on United, I don't see it as a victory worth celebrating.

And again, I am as Pro Pilot as they come (check my posting history).

You guys need to find a way to have a real impact to stop the bleeding; not just a symbolic one.

Good Luck.

 

[Flopgut]

The Continental Customers will get wind of this soon enough (at least the high priced business customers), and they will simply book through United.

Continental Pilots gained nothing.

Yup you can call it a victory, but as long as those 70 seat RJs are still carrying what would have been Continental Customers, now on United, I don't see it as a victory worth celebrating.

And again, I am as Pro Pilot as they come (check my posting history).

You guys need to find a way to have a real impact to stop the bleeding; not just a symbolic one.

Good Luck.

It's not the biggest deal in the history of powered flight, but it's a bigger deal than what you are characterizing. Go over to flyertalk.com and see what they are saying. For the frequent flyers that are in transition to UAL or CAL juice/miles/perks and such, it's a big deal. And they are the ones that raise the mortgage.

 

[johnpeace]

the planes will go into service anyway, operating under the United flight code.

So...did this stop any outsourcing?

 

[Flopgut]

Yes, it did John. Consider what this means at the bargaining table. The momentum just shifted 180 degrees. Jeff wanted leverage. He rolled the dice thinking the beatings would continue for mainline pilots and jobs would continue to evaporate. That notion just came to a halt. And our newly assigned mediator will view his actions as bad faith negotiating. Which is actually a big deal...

 

[PCL_128]

Who was assigned as your mediator?

 

[catIIIc]

Richard Bloch

 

[Flopgut]

No, Jim Mackenzie.

 

[PCL_128]

Excellent. He has an extensive airline and ALPA background.

 

[Dubya]

Management just called a play that didn't work. You know they have a playbook right? Now they call the end around. Here it comes. You know how CAL pilots can stop it? 4,700 pilots walk off the job the second one of these new UAL 70 seat flights pushes back from IAH, EWR, or CLE.

How long do you think they would have to stay out? I would bet a lot of money it would be one day. Would the gov't intervene? Probably, but with a legally binding ruling out of arbitration, I don't see how the gov't could fault CAL pilots. Shut the place down. You threatened it. You have the power. You have the right. Do you have the balls?

 

[goahead]

Do it cal, do it

 

[trip]

They don't have the balls, easier to piss and moan and threaten SkYW pilots as the problem.

 

[the palm]

Exactly. These clowns caused this problem. Now they want to blame it on SkyWest, Republic, Eagle, etc. Amazing how dumb people get when you flash a few $$$$$ in their faces.

Mainline Pilot: Scope? Don't need it. I am senior. Give me a pay raise instead.
Management: OK. <snicker snicker idiot moron>

 

[rtmcfi]

Exactly. These clowns caused this problem. Now they want to blame it on SkyWest, Republic, Eagle, etc. Amazing how dumb people get when you flash a few $$$$$ in their faces.

Mainline Pilot: Scope? Don't need it. I am senior. Give me a pay raise instead.
Management: OK. <snicker snicker idiot moron>

How did the Continental Pilots cause this? It seems to me the Continental "clowns" are the only ones left in the legacies that didn't swap scope for a couple of bucks. They deserve your support, not your snarky wrath.

 

[JoeMerchant]

How did the Continental Pilots cause this? It seems to me the Continental "clowns" are the only ones left in the legacies that didn't swap scope for a couple of bucks. They deserve your support, not your snarky wrath.

Screw 'em...They wanted to fight this battle on their own...I'll sit here and watch them fail....

Mainline pilots can either WORK with US to mutually solve the problem, or they can go it alone and try to dictate to us the solution..They have chosen the latter and I will not support them....

 

[imacdog]

Screw 'em...They wanted to fight this battle on their own...I'll sit here and watch them fail....

Mainline pilots can either WORK with US to mutually solve the problem, or they can go it alone and try to dictate to us the solution..They have chosen the latter and I will not support them....

You don't have a say anyway. You are a contractor and subject to their whims.

 

[JoeMerchant]

You don't have a say anyway. You are a contractor and subject to their whims.

That's fine if the mainline pilots want to believe that...However, don't believe that and then ask for my support...

 

[the palm]

How did the Continental Pilots cause this? It seems to me the Continental "clowns" are the only ones left in the legacies that didn't swap scope for a couple of bucks. They deserve your support, not your snarky wrath.

All the legacies allowed jets to be flown by their regional partners. The size doesn't matter! Surely you have heard that before

They will continue to suffer my wrath until the whipsaw is eliminated.

 

[ArcticFlier]

Sounds like the CO code is removed and the flying will be done under the UA code. It will be interesting to see how fast the CAL ALPA lawyers are in court trying to saddle this thing with an injunction to put a stop to this for the time being. At least until a more permanent and amenable solution can be had.

 

[cybourg10]

Sounds like the CO code is removed and the flying will be done under the UA code. It will be interesting to see how fast the CAL ALPA lawyers are in court trying to saddle this thing with an injunction to put a stop to this for the time being. At least until a more permanent and amenable solution can be had.

That won't be happening. The only objection CALPA had to this flying was the CAL code placed on the flight. They knew the flights would continue anyway if they won. This makes it tougher for future bookings because many flights out of important outstations (ATL, IND, DFW, SLC, etc) have been taken out of the system. Continental will lose business because of this, not everyone knows to book it through United.com instead.