CAL pilots win 50+ seat scope ruling

[chase]

Just curious, do the flights stop immediately or is UAL/CAL given a grace period to phase the advertised flights out, say a month or so?

Seems like there will be some pissed off pax that have booked on these flights already and will be told by UAL, "sorry, no can do".

Thanks for the answer in advance.

 

[OurMoney1]

Its good to hear that the legal letter of our CBA's are being supported. My hats off to the CAL MEC for its professionalism in seeing this through. Cheers!

 

[pipers]

Lots of little kids are sad today because they cant fly 50+ seats for CAL.

Not really true. Our internal message boards are ripe with praise and joy for the CO. Pilots. Give a little credit.

 

[COOPERVANE]

There are always the VOCAL pot-stirrer 10% at the regionals.

Nobody I know wants 70 seat jets flying at CO unless CO pilots are flying them.

 

[Raoul Duke]

my guess is that UA will remove the CAL code and will continue to operate the flights as United

 

[Flyerdan]

There are always the VOCAL pot-stirrer 10% at the regionals.

Nobody I know wants 70 seat jets flying at CO unless CO pilots are flying them.

So are you saying that you think a CRJ700 Captain with say 14 years seniority at a regional airline wants to get hired by a mainline carrier and start over at intro level pay flying the exact same equipment? Seriously?

 

[Newpilot2b]

Do I smell a much smaller IAH, CLE and EWR Base? Cinci, MEM and DAL comes to mind?

 

[johnpeace]

I have serious doubts that this is going to work out in favor of the CAL pilot group. I even suspect that this just played straight into UAL/CAL management's hands...we'll see how it goes.

 

[dojetdriver]

Do I smell a much smaller IAH, CLE and EWR Base? Cinci, MEM and DAL comes to mind?

That was inevitable with the buyout and shifting of assets. The ruling is probably just delaying it some.

 

[thor2j]

That was inevitable with the buyout and shifting of assets. The ruling is probably just delaying it some.

You Need to get some facts straight.

First, there was no buyout, it was a merger.

Second, the transition agreement keeps the airlines from shifting flying

Thirdly, do u really think they would shrink EWR. Serving the largest market in the US and the largest European carrier out of it?

 

[dojetdriver]

You Need to get some facts straight.

First, there was no buyout, it was a merger.

Second, the transition agreement keeps the airlines from shifting flying

Thirdly, do u really think they would shrink EWR. Serving the largest market in the US and the largest European carrier out of it?

First........ehhhh, dude, this is in the regional section. Hence, when I quoted the guy I was going with the FACT that XJT will be shrinking IAH, and more than likely CLE and EWR somewhat. You are aware of those facts, right? Just like when DAL realigned their regional feed.

Second, with that being said, you are aware that XJT got bought by SkyWest and not merger, right? Flying was shifted on those levels, see below.

Third, XJT planes, and crews are being moved out of IAH to cover UAX flying in both ORD and DEN. You do know that, right? Sure, that could all change and go back to the status quo with the ruling, doubt it. But not next month, nor in Feb either without a hefty cost.

Fourth, you have a nice day.

 

[General Lee]

I have serious doubts that this is going to work out in favor of the CAL pilot group. I even suspect that this just played straight into UAL/CAL management's hands...we'll see how it goes.

How can you make such outlandish comments and then NOT back them up? Did you add a Dr Evil laugh at the end while typing it?


Read it again John:


In our presentation to the arbitrator, our position was that the Continental scope clause makes clear that all flying, not only by the Company, but also for the Company, is to be performed by the Continental pilots, with specific delineated exceptions that can be found under Part 3. The Agreement makes clear that use of the Company’s code is alone sufficient to qualify a flight as Company flying subject to the scope clause. It states that flying by another air carrier can be an exception to the scope obligation, but only if is “authorized by” Part 4 (Express Carriers), Part 5 (Complementary Carriers and Foreign Air Carriers) or Part 7 (a carrier participating in a Complete Transaction).

The arbitrator agreed with our position, stating in his award,

“Placing the CO designator code on the UAX jet aircraft with a certification of fifty-one or greater seats to and from CLE, EWR and IAH is a violation of Section 1 of the Continental/ALPA collective bargaining agreement. The Company is ordered to cease and desist advertising and placing the CO code on such flights.”




How again JOHN is it playing into management's hands???



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Just curious, do the flights stop immediately or is UAL/CAL given a grace period to phase the advertised flights out, say a month or so?

Seems like there will be some pissed off pax that have booked on these flights already and will be told by UAL, "sorry, no can do".

Thanks for the answer in advance.

The arbitrator said cease and desist. So, that means DON'T EVEN GO THERE. Some people have asked why don't they just throw a UAL code on the flights instead of a CAL code? A couple questions I have are:

Why didn't they do that in the first place? Are they just making decisions over there without thinking about possible outcomes? UAL and CAL have 2 separate certificates until achieving SOC (single operating certificate) via the FAA. Until then, they have to abide by the separate contracts, OR negotiate a new joint contract, something Simsack has decided not to do yet. After watching the USAir debacle and the calmer DL/NWA merger, you would think Simsack would go for the latter and try to achieve labor peace and have a smoother SOC---which happened fairly quickly at DL and added to extra eventual profits. But no, Simsack wants to see what he can get away with, kinda like Parker at USAir. It just doesn't work, and it will only get tougher for him. But, with all of those UAL 70 seaters flying around, I can also see why he doesn't want to budge, but that doesn't seem to matter to ALPA. Who does care, though? Wall St.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[johnpeace]

How again JOHN is it playing into management's hands???

Yet to be seen.

We'll see the first punch UAL/CAL management lands in the next round, which will start soon I'm sure.

Or, do you think the fight is over and CALPA won?

 

[Flopgut]

Just curious, do the flights stop immediately or is UAL/CAL given a grace period to phase the advertised flights out, say a month or so?

Seems like there will be some pissed off pax that have booked on these flights already and will be told by UAL, "sorry, no can do".

Thanks for the answer in advance.

Lot's of very good CAL customers will not be happy. But, from what I gather on the frequent flyer boards, they are displeased with Jeff Smisek, not the pilots. They all know the company just made nearly a billion dollars in the third quarter. Instead of a DL/NWA transaction that went smooth, Jeff wants to pull a USAir type stunt. Well, he lost. Now CAL Elite customers and other upgradeable customers will be back in the 50 seaters. Lot's of good corporate customers who are not pleased will want to know what Jeff's next move is. It's pretty clear he screwed up even trying this stunt in the first place...