Cabotage, coming to a city near you?

[Dizel8]

A British Airways (BAY.L) spokesman expressed disappointment in the slow pace of progress.
"We had hoped that the conclusion of the second stage negotiations would have resulted in the immediate removal of restrictions on ownership and control, Fly America and cabotage," he said.


http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62O43K20100325

 

[NEDude]

I understand some of the concerns here, but American pilots are BY FAR (!!) the worlds cheapest pilots. No matter who owns the company you fly for, the management will be falling over themselves chasing down the cheap labor American pilots. You will still have a job.

 

[rtmcfi]

I understand some of the concerns here, but American pilots are BY FAR (!!) the worlds cheapest pilots. No matter who owns the company you fly for, the management will be falling over themselves chasing down the cheap labor American pilots. You will still have a job.

For now.

 

[Jetjockey]

I understand some of the concerns here, but American pilots are BY FAR (!!) the worlds cheapest pilots. No matter who owns the company you fly for, the management will be falling over themselves chasing down the cheap labor American pilots. You will still have a job.

Until we can get all the Indian, Chinese and Latin pilots trained................then watch wages fall through the floor.

 

[ableone]

I understand some of the concerns here, but American pilots are BY FAR (!!) the worlds cheapest pilots. No matter who owns the company you fly for, the management will be falling over themselves chasing down the cheap labor American pilots. You will still have a job.

Not true.

Our health insurance is paid for by our employers while our Eurotrash bros have a government system. They are still cheaper than we are overall.

 

[Full of LUV]

Ture....

Not true.

Our health insurance is paid for by our employers while our Eurotrash bros have a government system. They are still cheaper than we are overall.

And I don't believe that the BA spokeshole was looking to put on any extra speedbird flights, probably a new startup that could work with their "open skies" brand and find a way to lure cheap pilots into flying cross country in the US for $30K a year.
Cabotage is an extreme threat to even our current wages, it's not like the European pilots are setting new salary records, there is an erosion there as well, just a little more disguised because many of them don't fret about working all over the world.

 

[Ex737Driver]

And I don't believe that the BA spokeshole was looking to put on any extra speedbird flights, probably a new startup that could work with their "open skies" brand and find a way to lure cheap pilots into flying cross country in the US for $30K a year.
Cabotage is an extreme threat to even our current wages, it's not like the European pilots are setting new salary records, there is an erosion there as well, just a little more disguised because many of them don't fret about working all over the world.

Ain't that the truth. How many RJ pilots or for that fact furloughed pilots that would jump at the chance on a 737 at 60K a year as a CA to fly EC to WC? How many pilots out there are rooting for CAL to loosen their scope clause so they can come fly the "big iron" for CAL? Pathetic doesn't even begin to describe this.

 

[mamba20]

Just another reason to hate the Brits.

 

[Jetjockey]

Just another reason to hate the Brits.

As if their 17th century colonialism wasn't enough.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Ain't that the truth. How many RJ pilots or for that fact furloughed pilots that would jump at the chance on a 737 at 60K a year as a CA to fly EC to WC? How many pilots out there are rooting for CAL to loosen their scope clause so they can come fly the "big iron" for CAL? Pathetic doesn't even begin to describe this.

hmmm perhaps you don't like the free market.... outsourcing is the American Way!

 

[Ex737Driver]

hmmm perhaps you don't like the free market.... outsourcing is the American Way!

That would actually be true if we could outsource CEO's and Congress.

 

[AC560]

Our health insurance is paid for by our employers while our Eurotrash bros have a government system.

Who do you think pays the government in Europe so they have money to pay for healthcare? In either case chances are you will soon get to experience government healthcare in the US.

 

[TDK90]

Just another reason to hate the Brits.

Some mate shagged your missus?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

That would actually be true if we could outsource CEO's and Congress.

Been done for years.....

 

[planejockey]

Ain't that the truth. How many RJ pilots or for that fact furloughed pilots that would jump at the chance on a 737 at 60K a year as a CA to fly EC to WC? How many pilots out there are rooting for CAL to loosen their scope clause so they can come fly the "big iron" for CAL? Pathetic doesn't even begin to describe this.

Pardon me if I am wrong but what is CAL's first year pay? It is not a regional or furloughed pilot thing, it is a pilot thing. If it was not for the close minded mainline pilots none of the RJ would have ben out sourced. You know the saying "those who live in glass houses should not throw stones?"

If you care so much about your future as well as the regional guys you guys would be pushing for a staple of EGL to AMR's list, CPZ, CMR, Mesaba, etc to DL, maybe XJT to CAL but you know and I know that will never happen. Partly because most mainline guys see it as regional guys' dream, as well as the "i had to interview here and I deserve it" BS!

I am not trying to start anything with you I am just throwing out ideas!

 

[Paul R. Smith]

Pardon me if I am wrong but what is CAL's first year pay? It is not a regional or furloughed pilot thing, it is a pilot thing. If it was not for the close minded mainline pilots none of the RJ would have ben out sourced. You know the saying "those who live in glass houses should not throw stones?"

If you care so much about your future as well as the regional guys you guys would be pushing for a staple of EGL to AMR's list, CPZ, CMR, Mesaba, etc to DL, maybe XJT to CAL but you know and I know that will never happen. Partly because most mainline guys see it as regional guys' dream, as well as the "i had to interview here and I deserve it" BS!

I am not trying to start anything with you I am just throwing out ideas!

You have a fairly abrasive way of throwing out ideas.
I understand as well as many others do that this is a win-win for pilots. The problem is there is no leverage to force the company to do this.

Us:"You must merge mainline and express pilot seniority lists".
Mgmt: "No".
Us: "I strenuously urge you to merge the lists"
Mgmt: "Well in that case....No".

 

[N2264J]

The problem is there is no leverage to force the company to do this.

Us:"You must merge mainline and express pilot seniority lists".
Mgmt: "No".
Us: "I strenuously urge you to merge the lists"
Mgmt: "Well in that case....No".

Labor has a right, under federal law, to bargain collectively.

When the Delta MEC threw Comair and ASA pilots under the bus in front of management in 2000, managements everywhere took the hint.

While I was in JFK over the weekend, I saw a British Airways Airbus 319.

 

[GogglesPisano]

When the Delta MEC threw Comair and ASA pilots under the bus in front of management in 2000, managements everywhere took the hint. .

How did DALPA throw you under the bus?

 

[jppt2000]

How did DALPA throw you under the bus?

It's been 10 years since I left ASA, but I remember the phrase, lack of sufficient operational integration.

 

[N2264J]

How did DALPA throw you under the bus?

Throwing their regionals to the alter ego alligators in an attempt to avoid being eaten. But you will. Your MEC set the precedent in stone.

Think of DCI as the new global business model:

http://www.alpa.org/Portals/Alpa/PressRoom/PressReleases/2010/UALIADpicket_3-29-10.htm

 

[GogglesPisano]

Throwing their regionals to the alligators first in an attempt to be eaten last.
You will. Your MEC established the precedent.

Think of DCI as the new global business model:

http://www.alpa.org/Portals/Alpa/PressRoom/PressReleases/2010/UALIADpicket_3-29-10.htm

You're still not clear. The article you posted made a very strong argument for scope, for all brand flying being done by one pilot group with no outsourcing.

How did DALPA throw you to the alligators?

 

[jppt2000]

You're still not clear. The article you posted made a very strong argument for scope, for all brand flying being done by one pilot group with no outsourcing.

How did DALPA throw you to the alligators?

I'll bite if you forgive the pun,
by refusing to mitigate the huge threat of operational control of mainline flying handed over to DCI subcontractors.

Genie is out of the bottle now.
Maybe Gen Lee has a plan.

 

[planejockey]

Paul, all I am saying is that WE (atleast I am) are looking to you guys (mainline pilots) to fix the issue of scope. I just want DALPA, UA ALPA, and especially CAL ALPA since they are in contract negotiations to offer the plan. What is the worst that can happen? the company says no and they put up a stink. The best that comes out of it is that you allow CAL to fly an E170/190 by your pilots with maybe like JB wages. You can put in a stipulation that says any exchange with a 737 route will ensure pay bump to 737 rate. In that case you stop the company from dwindling the 73s and replace them with the 190s.
It is a win win for both the company and the pilots. The company gets its smaller cabin you solve the scope issue. I know my plan is not perfect but all I am saying is offer a different plan as the current one is set up for the demise of mainline pilots and to an extent the better regionals.

 

[cmrflyer]

While I was in JFK over the weekend, I saw a British Airways Airbus 319.

It was a 318.

The idea that alpa puts out about foreign pilots coming over here to work for sub standard wages is a joke. Firstly they would need greencards, and secondly we are the lowest paid pilots in the world. Why do you think so many americans have gone overseas in the last few yars to fly? Its not because they want to, its because thats where the money is.