C-Series Flight Deck Not Bad:

[Pogue Mahone]

Hi!

THis plane is what NWA was planning on replacing the DC-9s with, starting in 2012.

cliff
NBO

NWA and DC-9s...didn't you mean 2021?

 

[n757st]

You're right... WTF was I thinking? If it's "written" in the Delta PWA, in section BLAH, then there's no freaking way around it right? Don't worry I'm sure the company won't come asking Moak for any relief, it's not like that's ever happened before eehh? See.... you're right... you win.

Net

So do you judge if an aircraft goes to mainline by its manufacturer? Does that mean that if Boeing makes a 35 seat aircraft it should be flown by mainline and if Embriar makes a 300 passenger trans-continental aircraft that republic should fly it? This is no RJ. This is a 120+ seat MD88/DC9/F100/B737-700/MD90 replacement aircraft. If mainline chooses to give it up, well, no major would hire for 20 years in that case. This aircraft is a game changer, the equivalent of the 787 but to the domestic market. 20% fuel reduction with its new PW geared turbofans. If people like yourself keep calling it a regional jet, it will be come one. But let it be clearly known, this aircraft is a 120-180 passenger 2500+ mile range transcontinental aircraft and is in no way, shape, or form, a "regional" jet.

 

[Networ-King]

So do you judge if an aircraft goes to mainline by its manufacturer? Does that mean that if Boeing makes a 35 seat aircraft it should be flown by mainline and if Embriar makes a 300 passenger trans-continental aircraft that republic should fly it? This is no RJ. This is a 120+ seat MD88/DC9/F100/B737-700/MD90 replacement aircraft. If mainline chooses to give it up, well, no major would hire for 20 years in that case. This aircraft is a game changer, the equivalent of the 787 but to the domestic market. 20% fuel reduction with its new PW geared turbofans. If people like yourself keep calling it a regional jet, it will be come one. But let it be clearly known, this aircraft is a 120-180 passenger 2500+ mile range transcontinental aircraft and is in no way, shape, or form, a "regional" jet.

No...

You've missed my point completely. I think ALL JETS should be flown by mainline. ALPA and DALPA dropped the ball years ago with Comair and now you have "Regional Jets" that have more range than the DC-9/717 being flown by Express Carriers. Even though the 50 seater slipped through the perverbial cracks, all the unions should have forced the 70 seater to be flown by mainline pilots. However... as we have seen over and over again, relief after relief after relief..... the majors are becoming more like a virtual airline. I don't care how the PWA is written, there are loop holes around whatever is put on paper. Remember... we are our own worst enemy. There will be 20 yr olds lined up to pay for their own training and fly these planes for a fraction of what mainline pilots would get paid. Gotta love the computer age.....

Net

 

[n757st]

No...

You've missed my point completely. I think ALL JETS should be flown by mainline. ALPA and DALPA dropped the ball years ago with Comair and now you have "Regional Jets" that have more range than the DC-9/717 being flown by Express Carriers. Even though the 50 seater slipped through the perverbial cracks, all the unions should have forced the 70 seater to be flown by mainline pilots. However... as we have seen over and over again, relief after relief after relief..... the majors are becoming more like a virtual airline. I don't care how the PWA is written, there are loop holes around whatever is put on paper. Remember... we are our own worst enemy. There will be 20 yr olds lined up to pay for their own training and fly these planes for a fraction of what mainline pilots would get paid. Gotta love the computer age.....

Net

On this we agree. Every jet flown with Delta, US Airways, United, etc should be flown on a mainline list. A nice thing about future hiring is that there are many in my shoes, and like me when they get to a major they will use every bit of negotiating clout on scope protection for jobs that need to stay at the majors. As the majors start to get younger, expect scope to become more and more of an issue as the earlier mainline mentality of selling the young down the river in return for greater pay rates will no longer fly. The next rush for the regionals will be to do exactly what republic is doing now. They will buy existing airlines or start new ones on their own brand, followed by extensive code-sharing on larger aircraft that WILL cost mainline jobs if it is not addressed. Mainline MECs must push for strict code sharing rules in future contracts. Without it we very well might see republic EMB-190s running ORD-STL or IAD-DEN in Midwest colors and on a United ticket.

 

[Jon Rivoli]

One 747 can generate as much revenue as 10 DC-9's yet it takes the same amount of input or more to support a DC-9. This is generally true of larger aircraft vs. smaller ones, hence a tendency for airlines to grow into larger equipment and shed the smaller aircraft. Once you get used to making $150/hr. flying a Boeing there is no way in heck you would take a job flying a C172 for $15/hr. SkyWest doesn't want to go back to flying Metros and legacy (management) don't wan't to go back to flying anything smaller than a certain threshold (which is certainly different for different carriers). In business, if you can outsource a portion of your work for less than or the same cost as you can do it in house, you are better off outsourcing, especially if their are multiple vendors. Save money, decrease exposure to risks, increased leverage over quality and flexibility and decrease capital outlays and exposure. None of the reasons are labor friendly.
This is the line in the sand! It is not up to the twenty somethings with backpacks, spikey hair and IPODs. History and economics are not on our side. Different carriers will probably break in different direction, only time will tell.

 

[doh]

No...

You've missed my point completely. I think ALL JETS should be flown by mainline. ALPA and DALPA dropped the ball years ago with Comair and now you have "Regional Jets" that have more range than the DC-9/717 being flown by Express Carriers. Even though the 50 seater slipped through the perverbial cracks, all the unions should have forced the 70 seater to be flown by mainline pilots. However... as we have seen over and over again, relief after relief after relief..... the majors are becoming more like a virtual airline. I don't care how the PWA is written, there are loop holes around whatever is put on paper. Remember... we are our own worst enemy. There will be 20 yr olds lined up to pay for their own training and fly these planes for a fraction of what mainline pilots would get paid. Gotta love the computer age.....

Net

You have that right. The longer outsourcing is allowed, the more negotiating capital is required to end it. I don't think the major airline pilots have the stomach for the fight.

 

[funnyman12]

Last time I checked one of largest components of scope is number of seats...The C-Series is 110-150+ seats. If an airline like Republic or Skywest wants them...that's fine. But they are not going to be able to fly them under another Flag. Of course that is assuming our pilot groups stop giving up scope. Already some allow 86 seats...which is horrendous!!

 

[SSDD]

Last time I checked one of largest components of scope is number of seats...The C-Series is 110-150+ seats. If an airline like Republic or Skywest wants them...that's fine. But they are not going to be able to fly them under another Flag. Of course that is assuming our pilot groups stop giving up scope. Already some allow 86 seats...which is horrendous!!

See. That right there is the rub. It used to be that DCI were limited to 70 seats, period. For DL or anyone else. Then it went to 76. Then its like, its ok as long as its under a different certificate, or another flag, as you put it.

If DL wants it bad enough, they'll find a way around it.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Guess I'm just an "old geezer", but i miss the old "steam" gauge days when cockpits looked like cockpits (727,DC9.etc), This looks like a computer work station in somebodys cubicle.

Exactly! Piss on the C-Series. Everyone who salivates over this crap is nailing their own coffin.

 

[400A]

No...

You've missed my point completely. I think ALL JETS should be flown by mainline.

Net

I find this to be a very interesting opinion since judging by your posted resume, you flew at the regionals. It appears as though you were the very thing you despise.