C-foqa

[AOBLrJet]

In the beginning as a flight department we generally felt like we were being "big brothered." The person analyzing the data and presenting it to the group kept is very ambiguous and pointed out areas in need of improvement. If there was an "event" that he felt would be better off described by the pilot involved he would get their permission first.

Depending on how professionally the program is run in your department makes a huge difference. Whether or not an insurance company gets to look at the data is based on management decision I believe.

If you feel like it is going to ruin your empty leg flying technique then maybe your department really needs it.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

=AOBLrJet;2101361
If you feel like it is going to ruin your empty leg flying technique then maybe your department really needs it.

Or if you think the people flying your plane may need to be watched on empty legs you have already lost the battle - long before you spent the money on FOQA.

Very large department and looking for trends in SOPs among 30 different pilots? maybe?...but a single airplane operation? IMO just another item to throw money at to appease someone but do nothing for safety.

 

[ClubORD]

So? - what does that tell you?

and why does the insurance agent have access to the FOQA data and talk about it on the internet? How many 2 pilot single challenger 604's have FOQA installed? Bet that wont take long to figure out. So much for confidentiality.

People may fly slightly different when nobody is onboard....not worry about braking as dead smooth, rotating at more normal rates instead of the very (overly?) slow smooth rotation, hand-fly a little more for practice, etc.

Is it all safely within SOPs?

FOQA data - its only as useful as the monkey "analyzing" it, or passing judgement on it.

The insurance agent is looking at FOQA data because this is an element of the SMS Program the operator is implimenting and is a great resource to spot trends and help in the threat/error management within an operation.

Not saying it doesn't happen but I have never seen anyone spend the cash to install this just for discipline. If FOQA data is being used as "big brother" or used solely for busting someone, that it is a complete waste of time and completely counterproductive.

 

[AA717driver]

G4G5--Someone questioned whether this was even an incident that the NTSB should be involved in. I don't know. Whoever is running AA mx is seriously f'ed up. But as has been discussed, JAC is an accident waiting to happen. All AA airplanes are FOQA except for the -80's.

ClubORD--Thanks for the explanation. I think it's about time for Europe to get another beatdown. They're getting a little uppity. But it does make sense, now.

However, nothing against your industry, I just see this as another metric the industry uses to "mandate" better flying when the true cause is HR-driven hiring, dramatically reduced training requirements and touchy-feeley line checking.

[soapbox]Quite frankly, there are a lot of people in cockpits out there who can't find their a$$ with both hands and there's no mechanism (other than natural selection--not an optimum solution...) to get rid of them. [/soapbox]

TC

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Flight Operations Quality Assurance(FOQA) is the program. The Quick Access Recorder (QAR) is the equipment required to participate in FOQA. We already have the QAR and it works great. FOQA is a safety program where you take your de-identified QAR data and send it to a vendor who analizes the data and reports deviations from the standard or other "events" such as a gear or flap overspeed back to you. This allows you to identify trends in your fleet and also to compair your trends to others in the industry. Flight Safety Foundation has a program run by Austin Digital. We are not in that program, but I was hoping someone who participates in one could share some information.

You do not need a QAR to have FOQA. You can download directly from the FDR. Our airline has FOQA on 160+ aircraft, and no QARs.

 

[sleepy]

You do not need a QAR to have FOQA. You can download directly from the FDR. Our airline has FOQA on 160+ aircraft, and no QARs.

True, but it is easy to do with a QAR. But at $40K to install a QAR in a Falcon I can see why your airline would not want to spend that kind of money on a large fleet if it isn't necessary.