C-5 crash video

[pkober]

Sorry,

FRED

F ^CK*^G
R idiculous
E conomic
D isaster

 

[flyboyike]

Am I to understand that in the cockpit full of pilots, nobody noticed that there were two sets of engine gauges showing 0 and idle respectively? Nobody thought something was up?

 

[h25b]

Am I to understand that in the cockpit full of pilots, nobody noticed that there were two sets of engine gauges showing 0 and idle respectively? Nobody thought something was up?

Um.... Yes....

 

[pkober]

It's not a cockpit full of pilots. Two, maybe a third standing. The lesson to take is to not assume everything is "ops normal" during an emergency. Always double check.

I'm not gonna throw darts at these guys. I've seen some great pilots do things that make you scratch your head during an emergency, both civilian and military.

CLAMBAKE

 

[h25b]

It's not a cockpit full of pilots. Two, maybe a third standing. The lesson to take is to not assume everything is "ops normal" during an emergency. Always double check.

I'm not gonna throw darts at these guys. I've seen some great pilots do things that make you scratch your head during an emergency, both civilian and military.

CLAMBAKE

I think the lesson, from listening to the conversations going on, would be to treat an emergency like an emergency. They seemed to be treating the whole situation like a science experiment. Seemed like they were just going about flying a normal approach and landing without taking the time to get all their ducks in a row, pool all of their collective knowledge, and come to a sound consensus on the situation.

They were turning on to final approach still questioning the appropriate configuration and other details.

What was the big hurry to land so overweight in the first place ? Not being a smarta$$... I just would like the answer because I'm not all that familiar with the circumstances or the aircraft... I mean after all, it was Dover, not Iraq, no one was getting shot at...

 

[RampFreeze]

Safety Privileged Information! WTFO?

Am I the only one here who saw the trailer at the end of the video that said that this is "Official Use Only Safety Privileged Information." (i.e. unauthorized disclosure is illegal) What in the H*ll is this doing on the internet? Too late now, the lawyers will be all over this so that the ORFs/retired pax in the back (getting a free Space-A ride) can sue everyone involved.

I know, I can see the replies now of "Who cares, it's good information everyone can learn from" Unfortunately, that's not the point. The USAF holds two investigation boards on every accident. One is the Accident Investigation Board (AIB) where everything can be made public and criminal charges can be levied. The other investigation (conducted by a completely different set of investigators) is called the Safety Investigation Board (SIB). Anything from an SIB (like this video) is confidential, kept within USAF aviation channels and is used only for accident prevention/education. People are offered confidentiality when interviewed by an SIB and anything they produce (like this video) is "supposedly" protected from unauthorized release so that the lawyers can't get a hold of it. The AIB always (as far as I can tell) comes to an identical overall finding from their investigation as the SIB, but since everyone interviewed gets the "You have the right to remain silent" intro, its findings are publicly releasable. I don't mind seeing AIB information released to the world, but it is criminal to release SIB info. People are going to stop talking to the SIB investigators if this keeps up and this will really hurt accident prevention efforts. Am I the only guy to get the annual briefing on Safety Privilege from the flight safety guys?

 

[Fox-Tree]

Am I to understand that in the cockpit full of pilots, nobody noticed that there were two sets of engine gauges showing 0 and idle respectively? Nobody thought something was up?

No. Two of the "cockpit full of pilots" noticed it but they didn't feel like saying anything.

 

[flyboyike]

No. Two of the "cockpit full of pilots" noticed it but they didn't feel like saying anything.

That's just great.

 

[JimNtexas]

As I posted in the other thread on this incident, the Air Force Times printed the accident report:
http://www.airforcetimes.com/content/editorial/pdf/af_c5crash_report061606.pdf

The accident board places all the blame on the crew, but I have to wonder if any management factors contributed to this aspect of the flight:

All crewmembers who were interviewed and/or provided written statements were given the opportunity for adequate crew rest. However given the early alert time on the day of the mishap (0100L) no crewmember from whom data was obtained slept longer than four and one half hours...

(emphasis added)

No wonder they were not on their A-game.

 

[TankerDriver]

Am I the only one here who saw the trailer at the end of the video that said that this is "Official Use Only Safety Privileged Information." (i.e. unauthorized disclosure is illegal) What in the H*ll is this doing on the internet? Too late now, the lawyers will be all over this so that the ORFs/retired pax in the back (getting a free Space-A ride) can sue everyone involved.

Yeah, no $hit. Let the people who can learn something from this, (ie: "privileged" Air Force personnel/aircrew) see this, not the rest of the world.

 

[RJP]

Am I the only guy to get the annual briefing on Safety Privilege from the flight safety guys?

Apparently you're the only one who gives enough of a sh!t to stay awake during that crap.

ps. Shiner Bock rules!

 

[Fox-Tree]

That's just great.

Not the brightest bulb in the lamp - hmmm?

I was kidding. Of course none of the pilots in the cockpit caught the errors you mentioned. If they did, the aircraft wouldn't have CRASHED because they would have SAID something.

So, just so we're clear and your queston is answered: No - no one saw that the bad engine was trying to be used and the good engine was at idle AND.... no one thought "something was up". So...... they crashed.

That should get you up to speed.

 

[McGillicutty]

That's just great.

Granted the C5 is no Piper Meridian buuuut... understand this is more than putting two of Jerry's Kids in the front seats and asking them to fly.

 

[Vandal]

AF is pissed this leaked, my wing commader sent out an email yesterday making sure you deleted it if it was living on your harddrive.

 

[prozac]

Hey, h25b, you surely don't think you got all the facts from a few minutes of video do you? If you don't have all the info, don't pass judgement. There are usually many factors involved in an accident, and the truth is, you just don't know. The AC may have been dead tired, he may have been stone drunk, or he may have just made a mistake (albiet a big one) that no one caught. The fact is, we are all human, and we all f&*k up once in a while, whatever the reason.

Ramp Freeze, I think you're right on and I'm not even a safety guy. I wouldn't want to talk to anyone after an incident if I knew little tidbits of info were going to be posted all over everywhere for guys like h25b to critique. Sorry if you civilians think we're keeping all the info to ourselves, but some military procedures actually make sense (hard to believe, I know).