Buy American if you can...

[belchfire]

Buy American if and you where can...

I know it's tough. Try to buy something for your kid that isn't made in china. In fact the laptop that I am working on was assembled there-God only knows where the components came from...again a case of few choices.

Well, there are some places that you have a choice. One is in uniform shirts.
Yeah, they are expensive enough as it is. Van Heusen used to make their shirts in this country, but in order to fatten the pockets of those at the top they moved the factory to the PRC...as in the Peoples Republic of China. A country that has demonstrated a continuing unwillingness to allow their people decent freedoms such as we enjoy here.

The rest of your uniform is probably Union Made here in the US of A. So why negate that good and buy a Chineese knockoff shirt that looses buttons? Since pilots spend so much of their time beotching about pay I am going to step up and ask them to do what I have done.

I bought Landerwood uniform shirts. They aren't cheap, but you can feel the difference. And if something is going to be that close to you all fracking day long it adds up. Landerwood isn't the only one, there are other U.S. made choices. Landerwood is my preference. But by all that is Holy if you are going to beatch about your pay you shouldn't be buying chineese when you have a choice. Especially when Houser (sp?) and Van Heusen have demonstrated only their willingness to line their pockets by moving thier factories to the PRC and laying off workers here. And yes, my leather uniform is U.S. made too...not a cheapazzed knockoff.

Just my thoughts...

Belch

 

[CSY Mon]

my leather uniform is U.S. made too...

Leather uniform...?

You use that for uh, days off activities?

I try to buy US goods as well.
Got a Chevy and a Ford in my driveway.

Looking at a SONY screen (monitor) right now. Made in China, sold for $269.00. Excellent performance. good price for 19". If I could get the same product, or better, for the same price or better, I would sure make a point to buy US made goods. Having a hard time to pay more for less however.

Don't know that any electronic goods are really made here in the USA anymore...?

 

[FN FAL]

Don't know that any electronic goods are really made here in the USA anymore...?

That's why an EMP attack against the US would make sense from the stand point that Asia would only stand to gain during our post EMP attack rebuild.

 

[V-1]

Leather uniform...?

You use that for uh, days off activities?

I try to buy US goods as well.
Got a Chevy and a Ford in my driveway.

Looking at a SONY screen (monitor) right now. Made in China, sold for $269.00. Excellent performance. good price for 19". If I could get the same product, or better, for the same price or better, I would sure make a point to buy US made goods. Having a hard time to pay more for less however.

Don't know that any electronic goods are really made here in the USA anymore...?

Don't know that many Chevys or Fords are really made here in the U.S., of U.S.-made components anymore. Another generation or two, and we will have forgotten how to manufacture anything...except weapons, of course...better not outsource that to China.

 

[A Squared]

I try to buy US goods as well.
Got a Chevy and a Ford in my driveway.

Yep, if it says FOrd or CHevy, It *Must* be good old american, right? well, not necessarily. A lot of parts and sub assembelies are made overseas and in Mexico. THere was a thread recently here that discussed the phenomenon, one poster had information about some specific brands and models which showed the percentage of foreign manufactures parts and percentage of foreign assembly and it was pretty clear that the Japanese make (Toyota? Honda?) was substantially more "american" than the "american" brand (FOrd? CHevy? )

That of course doesn't stop Ford, GM, etc from waving the "made in America" flag, even though they're lying through thier teeth.

 

[PacoPollo]

I buy at Walmart. Thats an American company!

 

[belchfire]

I flunked typing. Sorry. Back when I was learning to twist the knobs on a narco 110 it wasn't a requirement.

Further, since the all knowing websitemaster of the flightinfo universe has limited us to one hour to edit our posts my gaff is forever saved-no doubt to the endless amusement of many-including me!!!

Please read "Leather uniform" as Leather Uniform Jacket.

I thank you for this opportunity to provide humor at my expense. Please note that I did not mention my leather riding crop. I will endeavor to not frighten all y'all with such details of my personal life in the future...

I agree about content in so called "american" vehicles. Many are no more american than the BMW's that are assembled in South Carolina. Many Dodges are assembled in mexico for that matter. My understanding is that the much praised Cummins BT-6 engine is now actually produced in Japan...

Hey Paco, I heard about this sweat shop that is hiring in the PRC. You could make $h1+ for wal-mart!

hehehehe...

 

[FN FAL]

I flunked typing. Sorry. Back when I was learning to twist the knobs on a narco 110 it wasn't a requirement.

Further, since the all knowing websitemaster of the flightinfo universe has limited us to one hour to edit our posts my gaff is forever saved-no doubt to the endless amusement of many-including me!!!

Please read "Leather uniform" as Leather Uniform Jacket.

I thank you for this opportunity to provide humor at my expense. Please note that I did not mention my leather riding crop. I will endeavor to not frighten all y'all with such details of my personal life in the future...

I agree about content in so called "american" vehicles. Many are no more american than the BMW's that are assembled in South Carolina. Many Dodges are assembled in mexico for that matter. My understanding is that the much praised Cummins BT-6 engine is now actually produced in Japan...

Hey Paco, I heard about this sweat shop that is hiring in the PRC. You could make $h1+ for wal-mart!

hehehehe...

thank goodness my STG-58 kit will be assembled by belgians or austrians.

 

[belchfire]

That's why an EMP attack against the US would make sense from the stand point that Asia would only stand to gain during our post EMP attack rebuild.

Yeah, all those old X type weaving machines have been set up in plants in the PRC. Heck, I don't even know of one damm gas station that could sell you anything if their cash register computers that are tied to inventory computers that talk to supplier computers goes down.

 

[FN FAL]

Yeah, all those old X type weaving machines have been set up in plants in the PRC.

I'm going to sit on your face and make you recite the battle hymn of the republic you salty dog.

 

[belchfire]

FN, only if you cut a figure like Ursala Andress did in her prime!

The Battle Hymn of the Republic is actually a rip off from an old Southern song. ("John Brown's body lies a-mouldering in the grave...")

"Dixie" was written by a yankee that never visited the South.

I think that is a fine example of irony...

X type looms have no computer controls-at least they didn't. The few mills that are still operating in this country are (to my knowledge) running newer looms that are computer controlled.

 

[BenderGonzales]

Welcome to the global economy boys. American manufacturers are going to have to figure out a way to strip inefficiencies out of the manufacturing process if they want to be able to complete.

The world is simply not altruistic enough to "buy american" just because they think it's the right thing to do.

Money doesn't grow on trees. I agree with CSY Mon. When an American Company can provide a product that is equal to or of superior quality to imported brands, and at a competitive price, they will get my business.

Until then, i'll be at Target, Best-Buy, Wal-Mart, Kohls, Home Depot, etc... and i'll be looking for what I need at the lowest possible price.

Don't ask the consumer to change. Work for change at the supplier level. Strip costs from production! Be more efficient! Work smarter! It's time for the unions to work WITH management rather than both sides trying to fleece each other at every opportunity. Today, unfortunately, the "Union Pride" label means nothing more than "Overpriced".

Where's Rez at. He gets off on these arguments.

 

[CSY Mon]

Yep, if it says FOrd or CHevy, It *Must* be good old american, right? well, not necessarily. A lot of parts and sub assembelies are made overseas and in Mexico.

I keep hearing that from guys who try to justify their foreign cars. (My Honda is made in the US, your Taurus is made in Canada, etc,)

The Mercedes in yer driveway may be built in Alabama, but the money goes to Krautland.

 

[BenderGonzales]

I disagree respectfully CSY Mon,

It's just not that simple. Mercedes builds a plant in Alabama and hires Alabama workers to assemble the cars. They pay the Alabama workers a competitive wage. Those Alabama workers then take that income and spend it in their own communities. They buy appliances, clothes, houses, toys for the kids, etc.

Granted the Germans are profiting the most, but I would rather see jobs in an area where jobs are needed, then to simply dismiss jobs in order to prove a point.

From the stepping stone fast-food or retail jobs on up -- EVERY job is important to someone. And every job puts money back into the economy.

Would I like it if they all earned a bit more? Well sure, but at what expense? If the guy making my McNugget earns a "living wage" and has full health benefits provided for him, what will the price of the McNugget be?

And if the price of that McNugget is adjusted upwards to absorb this increased expense ... is that not the same as taxing ME in order to subsidize that worker?

Why should I pay more for a McNugget because this guy has not earned the skills or experience to move to a higher-paying job?

Folks, we can not artifically adjust supply and demand. As a country we have no choice but to build a better mousetrap. We have to become more efficient and build a quality product cheaper than our global neighbors. That is the ONLY way to rebuild the manufacturers and the US middle class.

Oh...and shifting some defense dollars over to improve public education wouldn't hurt either.

 

[belchfire]

Ah-in my example at least, the shirts-I have never seen a shirt made in the PRC that is anywhere as nice as the Landerwoods. Another point that you might consider is that the CEO's of the companies that have moved jobs and production to the far east-they get rewarded for throwing honest workers here out of a job. I haven't seen prices go down on things from the PRC-only conglomerates and their CEO's making more money at the expense of the workers here.

Think about the quality of things that were made here, then the quality of the cheap knockoffs that are imported from the PRC. So much of that stuff is just crap!

 

[PacoPollo]

My pilots shirts are made in Honduras.

 

[belchfire]

My pilots shirts are made in Honduras.

Yeah, I bet they are, but I'm not talking about K-mart pocket tees..

Boohahahahahaha!

 

[Guitar rocker]

My pilots shirts are made in Honduras.

Those are the ones with that big collars. Something cheap has to look good on you.

 

[A Squared]

I keep hearing that from guys who try to justify their foreign cars. (My Honda is made in the US, your Taurus is made in Canada, etc,)

The Mercedes in yer driveway may be built in Alabama, but the money goes to Krautland.

No, not really. I was just adding some info that adds some considerable grey to the folks that live in a black and white world where "american" is good and "foreign" is bad. You have to admit the issue becosmes much greyer when you consider where the cars are really made and who is paid to manufacture and assemble them and what proportion of the jobs created by the producion of that car are here vs. overseas.

At any rate, I don't *ever* feel the need to justify owning a Toyota Pickup truck vis an "american made" one. For whatever reasons, I perceive the Toyota to be a much better value for my vehicle dollar. If you don't like that (and I say *you* in a general sense, not you personally) then do something that will change my perception of what is a better value in my esitimation. Don't just tell me to "buy american" especially when "american" has a very tenuous claim to really being american.

Perhaps, instead of a Toyota P/U I should buy a Dodge Dakota? But wait, isn't Dodge owened by Germans now? (I ask because I haven't kept up with the ownership of Chrysler, but I seem to recall it was purchased by Daimler (sp?) )

So If I but an "american" dodge pickup that is mostly assembled overseas from mostly foreign manufactured parts, by a German company, am I really "buying American" And, how is that Dodge, more american that a honda built in the us, from a larger percentage of US manufactured parts, using a greater percentage of US labor?

I know that you understand the concept of best value for your money, as you mentioned it in your first post. That's what I beleive I'm getting from my Toyota, based on my valuse. You may beleive the same about your american cars, based on your values, and neither of us is wrong. But the idea of "buy American" just because you should buy american becomes less and less valid as manufacureing is sent overseas.

 

[McNugget]

If the guy making my McNugget earns a "living wage" and has full health benefits provided for him, what will the price of the McNugget be?

Oh, 'bout $50K for first-year FO but I'm hoping for a relatively fast upgrade.

 

[tomcat]

Dear Dr. Z,
How much of my Dodge pickup is actually American?

j/k-please don't make another one of those annoying commercials

 

[V-1]

Once during a visit to India, I read a story in a local paper about a new call center that was opening in Bangalore. There were about 500 positions for night customer service reps.

There were approximately 6000 applicants, with college degrees, in line for those 500 jobs.

Those jobs paid $400/mo. U.S., in a country where the average annual salary is the equivalent of $1000 u.s.

How do we compete with that?

Globalization is going to level the economic playing field somewhat, but it won't be only the poor who are elevated. Those of us who live in the wealthies countries (most of us, at least) will likely see our standard of living decrease somewhat over time.

For the last few years, I've struggled with how to prepare for the negative effects of globalization. The best answer I can come up with is to invest in companies who know how to take advantage of globalization. Somehow we've got to get out in front of this wave before it drowns us.

Any thoughts? What a silly question to ask here!

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

I'll buy American when you hire American.

CE

 

[PacoPollo]

I fly American Airlines sometimes.

 

[hydroflyer]

An American company outsources its jobs to foreign countries, reducing available jobs for U.S. workers. A foreign company outsources its jobs to the U.S. providing opportunities for U.S. workers. Which is better for our economy, the money that comes to the U.S. company or the money that goes to a foreign company that provides U.S. jobs? Is one really better than the other?

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

If buying a Mercedes sends money to the Germans, then so does buying a Chrysler, because they're owned by the Germans.

I think Cramer, from the famous MSNBC show said it best:
"Toyota is the best American auto manufacturing company."

Trying to buy/define an American car these days is very difficult. One of my wife's acquaintences tried to do that, so she bought a Chevy. She didn't know it was built in Korea and shipped here. When my wife told her that she got really mad, because she purposely wanted to by an "American" car.

cliff
YIP

 

[ReverseSensing]

I buy at Walmart. Thats an American company!

Hehehe. Wal-Mart and China. What a cozy relationship that is. Wal-Mart is the best thing that's happened to China since Chiang Kai-Shek.

Wal-Mart's policy of putting the serious squeeze on US manufacturers has resulted in most of that manufacturing moving off-shore, a great deal of it to China. Bottom line: if you manufacture something and hope to sell it to Wal-Mart, you better be making it off-shore, because that's the only way you'll have a low enough price to satisfy the Wal-Mart patriots.

Nowadays, the US exports scrap metal, recycled paper, raw timber (logs), and jobs to China. China imports billions of dollars of shiny, new, consumer products to the US. That's one legacy of Bill Clinton (besides for cigar innuendoes and blue dress jokes) I could have lived without.

 

[V-1]

Bill Clinton worked for Wal-Mart?

 

[BenderGonzales]

I'm sure that nothing at Target, BestBuy, Costco, K-Mart, etc is made overseas.

Where do you shop?

 

[ReverseSensing]

Bill Clinton worked for Wal-Mart?

It's complicated, but yes. He did pretty well by China, too.

I'm sure that nothing at Target, BestBuy, Costco, K-Mart, etc is made overseas.

I'm sure you're wrong. Oh...I get it, you were being sarcastic.

Where do you shop?

I don't really have a favorite -- I spread my considerable Regional FO wealth around quite a bit.

Look, no one's hands are clean on this issue, but Wal-Mart is one of the largest companies in the world and they are blatantly "cost" oriented and drive a ton of consumption. They have changed the relationship between manufacturers and retailers from a "push" system to a "pull" system, and in the process, have had an astonishing impact on US manufacturing of consumer goods. No other consumer goods retailer has ever single-handedly had this kind of impact. The up-shot of this impact has been to drive manufacturing off-shore.

Lots of retailers sell imported consumer goods. Historically, no other ones have so effectively tipped the scales toward the necessity for US companies to manufacture off-shore as Wal-Mart by their incessant focus on low costs.

I will grant you that only the very wealthy can entirely avoid Chinese and other foreign products. My only point is that aside from obviously selling Chinese made products, Wal-Mart has, and continues to actually drive US manufacturing to China more than any other retailer in history.

Wal-Mart's an amazing American success story. But at what cost to the US manufacturing base?