But Dave will leave if we vote in a union....

[Captain Morgan]

That if a pension for life is good enough for you and him, then it is good enough for any American who puts in 20.

But social programs are under in attack in America. Social Security, healthcare, pensions.... (not your pension... its ok, don't worry....)

In life there are no guarantees, just choices.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

In life there are no guarantees, just choices.

Agreed... but chiding and marginalizing other Americans because they didn't make choices deemed worthy or appropriate by those who are judging is poor form and disrespectful.....

Again, if a pension, healthcare and education are good enough for one American, then its good enough for all...

Snubbing others because they didn't or couldn't join the MIL is poor form.

 

[pilotyip]

Agreed... but chiding and marginalizing other Americans because they didn't make choices deemed worthy or appropriate by those who are judging is poor form and disrespectful.....

Again, if a pension, healthcare and education are good enough for one American, then its good enough for all...

Snubbing others because they didn't or couldn't join the MIL is poor form.

you are so 70's, marginalizing those who did elect to serve is also poor form.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

you are so 70's, marginalizing those who did elect to serve is also poor form.

Yet I've done nothing as you suggest... you are simply trying to save face.....


But let's be direct: Are all Americans worthy of a pension, education and healthcare, or only those who sign up to kill other people? (that is what you did to get your pension, education and healthcare, correct? It is either truth or it is not)


Yes or no?

 

[Caveman]

Yet I've done nothing as you suggest... you are simply trying to save face.....


But let's be direct: Are all Americans worthy of a pension, education and healthcare, or only those who sign up to kill other people? (that is what you did to get your pension, education and healthcare, correct? It is either truth or it is not)


Yes or no?

All Americans are worthy of pensions, education and healthcare. Where you and I differ is whether or not each American should earn those things or be entitled to them.

My fellow retired veterans and I earned ours. We worked hard and made personal and financial sacrifices in exchange for them. Me and my family lived just above the poverty level for most of my military career. It was a paycheck to paycheck existance for the first 15 years. I didn't gross more than $30K until the last 4 years. When you add in the deployments, frequent moves and 24/7/365 duty requirements it's a tough row to hoe.

I look at my retirement check as deferred compensation for the low income and hardships I put up with while on active duty. IMO I earned every dime of it and I really don't give a flying fcku how you 'feel'. I did, however, have the priviledge of defending your right to speak your mind. Oh the irony! You get to be who you are and safely espouse your knucklehead ideas because guys like me and Yip stepped up and defended the very society you deplore. Shakespeare is enviously rolling over in his grave.

 

[pilotyip]

Yet I've done nothing as you suggest... you are simply trying to save face.....


But let's be direct: Are all Americans worthy of a pension, education and healthcare, or only those who sign up to kill other people? (that is what you did to get your pension, education and healthcare, correct? It is either truth or it is not)


Yes or no?

Not talking about that stuff at, again shows how you just don't get it, I refereed to 70's because back in the 70's you tended to hide your status a vet, especially one who served in VN. I had people tell me I was crazy for serving, or how they felt sorry for me, or shocked that I actually volunteered in 1965 to serve. But now days it is cool to be a vet, we try to honor are vets, but some people like you are still back in the 70's. See this is not my problem, but it does seem to be your problem.

My fellow retired veterans and I earned ours. We worked hard and made personal and financial sacrifices in exchange for them. Me and my family lived just above the poverty level for most of my military career. It was a paycheck to paycheck existance for the first 15 years. I didn't gross more than $30K until the last 4 years. When you add in the deployments, frequent moves and 24/7/365 duty requirements it's a tough row to hoe. Shakespeare is enviously rolling over in his grave.

You know this stuff coming from Rez is almost an honor, I would not a person with that perverted sense of what is correct to do anything but hold me in disdain.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

All Americans are worthy of pensions, education and healthcare. Where you and I differ is whether or not each American should earn those things or be entitled to them.

Actually, afforded the opportunity to earn those social safety nets... Right? Not everyone is Military material for one reason or the other... what of them?

My fellow retired veterans and I earned ours.

I never said you didn't. The issue is.... the ability to even have the option.

We worked hard and made personal and financial sacrifices in exchange for them.

You had an opportunity to do so and took it. Great. What about the guy that doesn't have the opportunity or doesn't want to be a warrior?

Me and my family lived just above the poverty level for most of my military career. It was a paycheck to paycheck existance for the first 15 years. I didn't gross more than $30K until the last 4 years. When you add in the deployments, frequent moves and 24/7/365 duty requirements it's a tough row to hoe.

It is a tough row... shouldn't all Americans have an opportunity to at least have a tough row to hoe? I am not suggesting an entitlement but the option as you did, to earn a pension, education and retirement through other means than military service.

Do you believe that corporations have the right to default on their obligations to workers pensions?

I look at my retirement check as deferred compensation for the low income and hardships I put up with while on active duty. IMO I earned every dime of it and I really don't give a flying fcku how you 'feel'. I did, however, have the priviledge of defending your right to speak your mind. Oh the irony! You get to be who you are and safely espouse your knucklehead ideas because guys like me and Yip stepped up and defended the very society you deplore. Shakespeare is enviously rolling over in his grave.

Classic.... your service to defend the consititution and freedom through bombs = democracy all while you are the arbitor of my right to speak is laughable and devalues your position.

Again... back to the start of this.... shouldn't all Americans have the option as you did to work hard and sacrifice and earn every penny of their deferred compensation in the form of a pension.... or do you have to only join the global presence of the US Military to get that....???

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Not talking about that stuff at, again shows how you just don't get it, I refereed to 70's because back in the 70's you tended to hide your status a vet, especially one who served in VN. I had people tell me I was crazy for serving, or how they felt sorry for me, or shocked that I actually volunteered in 1965 to serve. But now days it is cool to be a vet, we try to honor are vets, but some people like you are still back in the 70's. See this is not my problem, but it does seem to be your problem.

If we are going to honor vets then we need to also recognize the horrors of war and not scrub and santize the truth....

Seems like you are proud that you served... good for you... do you need others to validate your life choices or are you content with yourself?

You know this stuff coming from Rez is almost an honor, I would not a person with that perverted sense of what is correct to do anything but hold me in disdain.

How would you know what is correct, when you don't have all the facts.....

 

[Caveman]

It is a tough row... shouldn't all Americans have an opportunity to at least have a tough row to hoe? I am not suggesting an entitlement but the option as you did, to earn a pension, education and retirement through other means than military service.

Every American already has that opportunity, but too many of them don't take advantage of it. We all make choices. Collectively we should not be held responsible for somebody else's poor choices or lack of planning. I'm more than willing to offer a helping hand when misfortune deals a setback. I will not sit back and let you and others like you force me to coddle those folks that won't help themselves.

Do you believe that corporations have the right to default on their obligations to workers pensions?

No, I don't. If I had my way pension plans would be mandated by law to be 100% funded 100% of the time and if a company filed BK the pension plans would get their money before any other creditor.

Classic.... your service to defend the consititution and freedom through bombs = democracy all while you are the arbitor of my right to speak is laughable and devalues your position.

I didn't arbitrate anything. You can say whatever the hell you want any time you want. You're still misguided and wrong.

Again... back to the start of this.... shouldn't all Americans have the option as you did to work hard and sacrifice and earn every penny of their deferred compensation in the form of a pension.... or do you have to only join the global presence of the US Military to get that....???

Yes and they already have that option via a multitude of choices. You seem to think it must come from a government source. The fact my former employer is the federal government is irrelevant. It was a job that I was compensated for. That's a far cry from being an entitlement or social program.

Get a clue Rez. The government owes you nothing in the form of money, food, health care or housing. That's your responsibility. All the government is responsible for is a level playing field, the opportunity to live freely and a safe place in which to do it. If there are folks that can't make it because of a lack of physical and/or mental ability we'll help them out. Let Darwin take care of the rest.

 

[Caveman]

Wow.....talk about thread creep. My apologies to the OP.