But Dave will leave if we vote in a union....

[StarChecker]

As for job protection, it says in my contract that if I get furloughed the company will continue to pay my salary until my contract runs out. That's more security that I got when I was furloughed from my major ALPA carrier.

I have complete tolerance for others' opinions, but I have ZERO patience for ignorance. The ignorance you are publicly displaying regarding your own employment agreement is staggering.

It doesn't say ANYWHERE that we get paid through the end of our contracts. You get a lump sum of one year's severance with about 50 strings attached to it. And exactly what lawyers are you going to hire to get that money for you? Oh that's right...we have that $2 million laying around for us. Where is that $2 million? Who controls it? How is it distributed? Do we all have to get the same lawyer or do we have to get our own? By the way...it's $986 per pilot. Let me know how that works out for you.

Please go read the 2010 PEA. It's on the intranet. PLEASE get educated before you make such an important decision.

 

[cowboy55]

Splert I tried being civil with you but obviously your underlying objetctives are getting in the way. Take care and I am sorry you are so miserable in life. Best wishes.
Cowboy

 

[Splert]

Splert I tried being civil with you but obviously your underlying objetctives are getting in the way. Take care and I am sorry you are so miserable in life. Best wishes.

Cowboy

You have your facts wrong. The NTSB report will correct your misstatement of fact.

You also stated that a certain feature of the A320 does certain things.

You are wrong about that too.

Claiming to be civil while factually wrong doesn't make your opinion relevant.

 

[B6Busdriver]

Splert read your contract. Under Section 8. JOB SECURITY!!!!!!!!!!!! You have no clue what the truth is. Get your facts together before you call me a liar. Just goes to show your ALPA facts are probably inaccurate as well.

If/when we get bought you get paid for a year. Will it be 70 hours per month? We you be displaced to 190 f/o then get 70 hours of pay per month for one year? All question for your attorney.

If oil hits $200 a barrel and the company needs to furlough who goes first? Let's say you have 3 months left in your contract. Someone a 1000 numbers junior to you has 4 years left on their contract. Who hits the pavement first? Seriously, I am not trying to scare anyone. It's time to talk about facts, not what we hope is reality. Stop crying about what happened at Mesa or whatever ALPA carrier you worked for. Some of you think that paying dues gives a job even if your company is bankrupt or shuts down.

 

[dojetdriver]

So he gets income from a military pension...so ********************ing what? Everyone chooses their own path in life, and everyone else was equally able to shape their career path to they could earn a military retirement and be in a similar position.

Not entirely true. There are guys that may have had a vision or other physical deficiency (knee/foot/back, etc) that may have rendered them unable to get through the physical/PFT to enter the military.

Rez does a pretty good job of addressing your questions. But I'm curious, do you have experience in the airline world? Especially when there are contract negotiations, or worse, concessions going on and you can observe what he's referencing?

I've seen it both times when going through concessions. What worse is to be on a legacy JS and the CA is talking about the pay isn't a big deal to him since he's drawing his retirement, while the FO is about to get furloughed.

 

[pilotyip]

Not entirely true. There are guys that may have had a vision or other physical deficiency (knee/foot/back, etc) that may have rendered them unable to get through the physical/PFT to enter the military.

Yes it may be true, that some are not qualified, but that should not detract from those who elected to serve, afterall, they are 20-30 years behind civilians in starting their civilian careers.

I've seen it both times when going through concessions. What worse is to be on a legacy JS and the CA is talking about the pay isn't a big deal to him since he's drawing his retirement, while the FO is about to get furloughed.

his guy was out of place, and inconsiderate.

 

[dojetdriver]

Edited, failed it insert the bolded part that was later repeated at the end.

Yes it may be true, that some are not qualified, but that should not detract from those who elected to serve, afterall, they are 20-30 years behind civilians in starting their civilian careers.

Not entirely true. Comparing the apples to bowling balls military 20+ career path to that of a civilian. Also this is not a mil vs. civ peeing contest.

20+ military pilot exits with plenty of quality flight time to make him competitive for just about any job out there from a pure objective qualifications standpoint. He also has retirement paycheck coming in. Take the hiring situation circa 2007, CAL/NW/UAL/USAir are hiring, but first, as well as subsequent year wages are pretty crappy. DAL's wasn't too bad. If the pilot was a civilian coming from the regional, lower paid fractional/nonsched on demand outfit, they don't have the retirement paycheck coming to supplement the income. Even if they had put in multiple years at the previous employers, gone through a few furloughs, paycuts, etc. The retired military pilot has a leg up in the financial sense, and isn't really "20-30 years behind civilians" from the financial standpoint.

Like I said, this isn't a mil vs. civ peeing contest.

his guy was out of place, and inconsiderate.

Indeed he was, but for those that refute the mentality exists are simply ignorant and haven't seen it.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Splert read your contract. Under Section 8. JOB SECURITY!!!!!!!!!!!! You have no clue what the truth is. Get your facts together before you call me a liar. Just goes to show your ALPA facts are probably inaccurate as well.

ARBITRATION DECISION
Earlier today the CAL MEC was informed that arbitrator Richard Bloch ruled in favor of ALPA in the expedited arbitration over scope held earlier this month. The arbitration resulted from the group grievance filed regarding management’s post-merger decision to outsource flying using the CO designator code on 70-seat jets from Continental hubs. The Association saw this as a violation of the Continental CBA and an attempt by management to leverage its position in negotiations in favor of outsourcing.

On Oct. 20, 2010, the Company informed the Association of its intent to operate CRJ-700 and EMB-170 aircraft as United Express flights with the CO designator code into and out of Company hubs starting on Jan. 4, 2011. The Association subsequently met with the Company on Oct. 26 to request the Company’s contractual basis for the proposed operation, which they provided on Nov. 3, 2010. In short, the Company cited as their justification 1) that the Transition and Process Agreement authorizes the carriers to integrate their marketing and reservations, 2) that the Continental pilots’ scope clause excludes merger partners’ flying and 3) that the United pilots’ scope clause permits the use of 70-seat aircraft.

In the arbitration hearing that took place Dec. 9, 2010, ALPA attorneys Dan Orfield and Art Luby, our Alliance Committee chairman Alfredo Suarez and outside council Mike Abram presented a vigorous case and an abundance of evidence to support our position.

In our presentation to the arbitrator, our position was that the Continental scope clause makes clear that all flying, not only by the Company, but also for the Company, is to be performed by the Continental pilots, with specific delineated exceptions that can be found under Part 3. The Agreement makes clear that use of the Company’s code is alone sufficient to qualify a flight as Company flying subject to the scope clause. It states that flying by another air carrier can be an exception to the scope obligation, but only if is “authorized by” Part 4 (Express Carriers), Part 5 (Complementary Carriers and Foreign Air Carriers) or Part 7 (a carrier participating in a Complete Transaction).

The arbitrator agreed with our position, stating in his award,

“Placing the CO designator code on the UAX jet aircraft with a certification of fifty-one or greater seats to and from CLE, EWR and IAH is a violation of Section 1 of the Continental/ALPA collective bargaining agreement. The Company is ordered to cease and desist advertising and placing the CO code on such flights.”

We are of course pleased with the arbitrator’s decision and the fact that the language and intent of the CBA that was negotiated by ALPA was affirmed. We are additionally pleased that the system for resolving such disputes worked as intended and that our strategy for handling this issue was affirmed as well. No doubt there will be complex compliance issues following the arbitrator’s decision that we will be monitoring closely. We will continue to provide any updates as needed.

Happy New Year.
One Union. One Voice.

Um..yes, I'm sure they are....

 

[aewanabe]

a Anytime any one gets their panties in a wad because of English instead of content, I try to focus on how it does not make a big difference how the message is conveyed, and if sentences run on, so what. Stick to exchanging ideas, thoughts, and experiences is what it is all about. If I wanted a critique on my writing, I would take freshman English again.

The funny thing is I complemented your usual English, and you ignored the content completely... By the way, thanks for your service. I don't begrudge any benefits coming Veterans' way, as I believe you all earned it; the safety net does color one's view of acceptable compensation, however.

P.S., Go ALPA with the CO arbitration victory! Take that, Smisek!

 

[pilotyip]

The funny thing is I complemented your usual English, and you ignored the content completely... By the way, thanks for your service. I don't begrudge any benefits coming Veterans' way, as I believe you all earned it; the safety net does color one's view of acceptable compensation, however.

P.S., Go ALPA with the CO arbitration victory! Take that, Smisek!

I graciously accept your complement; my post was not to ignore your complement to post the absurdity of skipping post content to critique grammar. BTW I don’t know how my pension cushion effect the pay of a job I take when it is a union company, or a published pay rate.

 

[Captain Morgan]

That if a pension for life is good enough for you and him, then it is good enough for any American who puts in 20.

But social programs are under in attack in America. Social Security, healthcare, pensions.... (not your pension... its ok, don't worry....)

In life there are no guarantees, just choices.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

In life there are no guarantees, just choices.

Agreed... but chiding and marginalizing other Americans because they didn't make choices deemed worthy or appropriate by those who are judging is poor form and disrespectful.....

Again, if a pension, healthcare and education are good enough for one American, then its good enough for all...

Snubbing others because they didn't or couldn't join the MIL is poor form.

 

[pilotyip]

Agreed... but chiding and marginalizing other Americans because they didn't make choices deemed worthy or appropriate by those who are judging is poor form and disrespectful.....

Again, if a pension, healthcare and education are good enough for one American, then its good enough for all...

Snubbing others because they didn't or couldn't join the MIL is poor form.

you are so 70's, marginalizing those who did elect to serve is also poor form.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

you are so 70's, marginalizing those who did elect to serve is also poor form.

Yet I've done nothing as you suggest... you are simply trying to save face.....


But let's be direct: Are all Americans worthy of a pension, education and healthcare, or only those who sign up to kill other people? (that is what you did to get your pension, education and healthcare, correct? It is either truth or it is not)


Yes or no?

 

[Caveman]

Yet I've done nothing as you suggest... you are simply trying to save face.....


But let's be direct: Are all Americans worthy of a pension, education and healthcare, or only those who sign up to kill other people? (that is what you did to get your pension, education and healthcare, correct? It is either truth or it is not)


Yes or no?

All Americans are worthy of pensions, education and healthcare. Where you and I differ is whether or not each American should earn those things or be entitled to them.

My fellow retired veterans and I earned ours. We worked hard and made personal and financial sacrifices in exchange for them. Me and my family lived just above the poverty level for most of my military career. It was a paycheck to paycheck existance for the first 15 years. I didn't gross more than $30K until the last 4 years. When you add in the deployments, frequent moves and 24/7/365 duty requirements it's a tough row to hoe.

I look at my retirement check as deferred compensation for the low income and hardships I put up with while on active duty. IMO I earned every dime of it and I really don't give a flying fcku how you 'feel'. I did, however, have the priviledge of defending your right to speak your mind. Oh the irony! You get to be who you are and safely espouse your knucklehead ideas because guys like me and Yip stepped up and defended the very society you deplore. Shakespeare is enviously rolling over in his grave.

 

[pilotyip]

Yet I've done nothing as you suggest... you are simply trying to save face.....


But let's be direct: Are all Americans worthy of a pension, education and healthcare, or only those who sign up to kill other people? (that is what you did to get your pension, education and healthcare, correct? It is either truth or it is not)


Yes or no?

Not talking about that stuff at, again shows how you just don't get it, I refereed to 70's because back in the 70's you tended to hide your status a vet, especially one who served in VN. I had people tell me I was crazy for serving, or how they felt sorry for me, or shocked that I actually volunteered in 1965 to serve. But now days it is cool to be a vet, we try to honor are vets, but some people like you are still back in the 70's. See this is not my problem, but it does seem to be your problem.

My fellow retired veterans and I earned ours. We worked hard and made personal and financial sacrifices in exchange for them. Me and my family lived just above the poverty level for most of my military career. It was a paycheck to paycheck existance for the first 15 years. I didn't gross more than $30K until the last 4 years. When you add in the deployments, frequent moves and 24/7/365 duty requirements it's a tough row to hoe. Shakespeare is enviously rolling over in his grave.

You know this stuff coming from Rez is almost an honor, I would not a person with that perverted sense of what is correct to do anything but hold me in disdain.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

All Americans are worthy of pensions, education and healthcare. Where you and I differ is whether or not each American should earn those things or be entitled to them.

Actually, afforded the opportunity to earn those social safety nets... Right? Not everyone is Military material for one reason or the other... what of them?

My fellow retired veterans and I earned ours.

I never said you didn't. The issue is.... the ability to even have the option.

We worked hard and made personal and financial sacrifices in exchange for them.

You had an opportunity to do so and took it. Great. What about the guy that doesn't have the opportunity or doesn't want to be a warrior?

Me and my family lived just above the poverty level for most of my military career. It was a paycheck to paycheck existance for the first 15 years. I didn't gross more than $30K until the last 4 years. When you add in the deployments, frequent moves and 24/7/365 duty requirements it's a tough row to hoe.

It is a tough row... shouldn't all Americans have an opportunity to at least have a tough row to hoe? I am not suggesting an entitlement but the option as you did, to earn a pension, education and retirement through other means than military service.

Do you believe that corporations have the right to default on their obligations to workers pensions?

I look at my retirement check as deferred compensation for the low income and hardships I put up with while on active duty. IMO I earned every dime of it and I really don't give a flying fcku how you 'feel'. I did, however, have the priviledge of defending your right to speak your mind. Oh the irony! You get to be who you are and safely espouse your knucklehead ideas because guys like me and Yip stepped up and defended the very society you deplore. Shakespeare is enviously rolling over in his grave.

Classic.... your service to defend the consititution and freedom through bombs = democracy all while you are the arbitor of my right to speak is laughable and devalues your position.

Again... back to the start of this.... shouldn't all Americans have the option as you did to work hard and sacrifice and earn every penny of their deferred compensation in the form of a pension.... or do you have to only join the global presence of the US Military to get that....???

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Not talking about that stuff at, again shows how you just don't get it, I refereed to 70's because back in the 70's you tended to hide your status a vet, especially one who served in VN. I had people tell me I was crazy for serving, or how they felt sorry for me, or shocked that I actually volunteered in 1965 to serve. But now days it is cool to be a vet, we try to honor are vets, but some people like you are still back in the 70's. See this is not my problem, but it does seem to be your problem.

If we are going to honor vets then we need to also recognize the horrors of war and not scrub and santize the truth....

Seems like you are proud that you served... good for you... do you need others to validate your life choices or are you content with yourself?

You know this stuff coming from Rez is almost an honor, I would not a person with that perverted sense of what is correct to do anything but hold me in disdain.

How would you know what is correct, when you don't have all the facts.....

 

[Caveman]

It is a tough row... shouldn't all Americans have an opportunity to at least have a tough row to hoe? I am not suggesting an entitlement but the option as you did, to earn a pension, education and retirement through other means than military service.

Every American already has that opportunity, but too many of them don't take advantage of it. We all make choices. Collectively we should not be held responsible for somebody else's poor choices or lack of planning. I'm more than willing to offer a helping hand when misfortune deals a setback. I will not sit back and let you and others like you force me to coddle those folks that won't help themselves.

Do you believe that corporations have the right to default on their obligations to workers pensions?

No, I don't. If I had my way pension plans would be mandated by law to be 100% funded 100% of the time and if a company filed BK the pension plans would get their money before any other creditor.

Classic.... your service to defend the consititution and freedom through bombs = democracy all while you are the arbitor of my right to speak is laughable and devalues your position.

I didn't arbitrate anything. You can say whatever the hell you want any time you want. You're still misguided and wrong.

Again... back to the start of this.... shouldn't all Americans have the option as you did to work hard and sacrifice and earn every penny of their deferred compensation in the form of a pension.... or do you have to only join the global presence of the US Military to get that....???

Yes and they already have that option via a multitude of choices. You seem to think it must come from a government source. The fact my former employer is the federal government is irrelevant. It was a job that I was compensated for. That's a far cry from being an entitlement or social program.

Get a clue Rez. The government owes you nothing in the form of money, food, health care or housing. That's your responsibility. All the government is responsible for is a level playing field, the opportunity to live freely and a safe place in which to do it. If there are folks that can't make it because of a lack of physical and/or mental ability we'll help them out. Let Darwin take care of the rest.

 

[Caveman]

Wow.....talk about thread creep. My apologies to the OP.