Burn, baby, BUUURRNNNN! 9E's latest memo...

[DoinTime]

Pinnacle pilots have not impressed me so far.

First, they had no problems staffing the -900 operation in a new domicile when they didn't even pay a cent more for it.

Most of the time your posts are pretty intelligent but this one is downright dumb. Our contract provides for a means at coming up with a new pay rate for new equipment (its actually identical to ASA language). Unfortunately, in this case we had to arbitrate it and that takes time. Everyone got paid back to their start of service in the airplane and to some that was near $10,000 worth in backpay. It would have been no skin off of the company's back to put all new hires in the ATL operation (in fact they would have liked it that way). We had Comair refuges lined up waiting for those left seat jobs at first year pay.

 

[Smacktard]

Don't you mean the "9"? I actually had one of their FOs on my jumpseat tell me he's on the "9". I asked him when Pinnacle starting flying DC-9s, and he responded "No, man, the CRJ-900. Don't you know what that is?". This was, BTW, while sitting in the jumpseat of a "7".imp:

Don't forget about the standby attitude indicator. We wouldn't want that to be more that 200 feet off at altitude and show worse as speed increases. Ya think there might be some water in the system at the outstation?

My bad, I meant the "9". You get to wear your eppelets backwards when you fly it, right? Or is that limited to Mesaba?

 

[sweptback]

Most of the time your posts are pretty intelligent but this one is downright dumb. Our contract provides for a means at coming up with a new pay rate for new equipment (its actually identical to ASA language). Unfortunately, in this case we had to arbitrate it and that takes time. Everyone got paid back to their start of service in the airplane and to some that was near $10,000 worth in backpay. It would have been no skin off of the company's back to put all new hires in the ATL operation (in fact they would have liked it that way). We had Comair refuges lined up waiting for those left seat jobs at first year pay.

I understand how new equipment pay arbitration works. We've been through it in my time at ASA with the 700, although the parties reached a LOA before it got to the last step.

However, I know nothing about your contract, but bidding a new equipment type usually involves some sort of seat lock. To bid the 900, then be disappointed with the payrate or QOL, and bid back to the 200 may not be possible. It's a pretty big risk to take, unless you commuted from ATL or just wanted to fly the sweet new airplane.

If your contract doesn't have a seat lock then it's not that big of an issue. For the record, the 700 at ASA went fairly junior at first until the number of lines increased and the QOL improved, and that was with a higher payrate.

 

[OCP]

You expect them to just not show up for work? Give me a break.

The PCL pilots have held strong on their contract demands. I didn't see anyone attacking the ASA pilots after 5+ years of contract talks when they still hadn't started a work-to-rule effort. The PCL pilots have a ways to go before they reach that length of time in Section 6. Give them time to reach critical mass on a work-to-rule effort.

So why isn't PCL learning from ASA's mistake? It took a LONG time for us to get together and finally work as a group. However when we did it took less than a month to get a contract. Every few months posts like this come up and we (ASA) say the same thing to you guys, and nothing happens.

 

[PCL_128]

So why isn't PCL learning from ASA's mistake? It took a LONG time for us to get together and finally work as a group. However when we did it took less than a month to get a contract. Every few months posts like this come up and we (ASA) say the same thing to you guys, and nothing happens.

I agree that they should be doing what you guys did to such great success. But the reality is that it takes a while for people to get pissed off enough to take those sorts of actions. It will reach critical mass at some point. Like you, I wish it was sooner rather than later, but it'll come in due time.

 

[Brasilia Flyer]

Ok, I apologize in advance. I've had two too many Red Bulls, and so it will show. Sorry.

Excerpts from the memo, regarding APU usage.



WHAT?!? Did we just get a new contract? Cause it sounds like they want me to help out a little extra. I don't see any new contract! No thanks! I'll bend over backwards to help with fuel/APU once we get a new contract. Until then, shove it.



YES! Work to Rule! My fellow 9E pilots, I salute you. Light that beotch up at 10,000 ft during the approach check, each time, every time, and keep it on until you absolutely have to turn it off. And DON'T let station agents tell YOU what to do with YOUR airplane.





Management is so willing to pay penalty fines in the MILLIONS every year, yet, they can't sit down and close the contract with us. The $ spread on the contract is not far. It's so close.

Give me a new contract, otherwise, shove it. I ain't goin out of my way to help 'them' out.

/Rant

A true class act. Who is 9E anyway?

 

[Long Time Gone]

Pee Nuckle

 

[Flyer1015]

A true class act. Who is 9E anyway?

True class act? Blame management. If you really knew them, you would know that they do NOTHING unless their bottom line starts to hurt. Their wallets have to hurt before they pull their heads out of their a$$es and wonder what is going on? Only then do they take any action.


They will not negotiate in good faith until their wallets start to hurt. When we initially were told we're gonna lose the Delta flying, our management sat down and negotiated with us for two full weeks non-stop. Never had that happened before in the 3+ yrs of negotiating.

They will only get the contract done when their wallets hurt real bad. Work to rule!

 

[ShutupandFly]

What chu got against Obama? Does this make me a douc&e too?

Tax policy
Socialized health care policy
Foreign policy
Defense policy
Economic policy
Education policy
Energy policy
Fiscal policy
Immigration policy
Social Security policy
Medicare policy

And oh yea….. He has big ears.

 

[DoinTime]

Tax policy
Socialized health care policy
Foreign policy
Defense policy
Economic policy
Education policy
Energy policy
Fiscal policy
Immigration policy
Social Security policy
Medicare policy

And oh yea….. He has big ears.

Coincidentally, my list of issues with McCain looks a lot like this except a lot longer.

 

[Long Time Gone]

You forgot total lack of experience. A few years in the Senate doesn't cut it.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Don't forget about the standby attitude indicator. We wouldn't want that to be more that 200 feet off at altitude and show worse as speed increases. Ya think there might be some water in the system at the outstation?

Unfortunately that one doesn't work. There's no requirement for the standby altimeter to be within tolerance of the primary altimeters. I only know this because I "expressed my concern about the accuracy of the standby altimeter" to Maintenance Control while I was at an outstation one time. Much to my surprise, they actually did fax me documentation from Bombardier proving their point. Lucky for me, I had already also determined that the spare fuses required by the FARs were missing and the ADG Placard on the right side of the nose was too worn to read..... (for what it's worth)

 

[Flyprdu]

You forgot total lack of experience. A few years in the Senate doesn't cut it.

26 years is a little too ripe, if you know what I mean. If not, ask Ted Stevens.

 

[Flyprdu]

I would have loved to have read what you wrote, but I was distracted by the transsexual manwhore on your avatar.

 

[cuculain]

"We still receive reports from stations indicating that exteranal air and AC is available, yet the crews choose to leave the APU in operation."

What, exactly, is exteranal air anyway? I am surprised this post went for 4 pages and none of you flamers caught this.

 

[timmay]

Unfortunately that one doesn't work. There's no requirement for the standby altimeter to be within tolerance of the primary altimeters. I only know this because I "expressed my concern about the accuracy of the standby altimeter" to Maintenance Control while I was at an outstation one time. Much to my surprise, they actually did fax me documentation from Bombardier proving their point. Lucky for me, I had already also determined that the spare fuses required by the FARs were missing and the ADG Placard on the right side of the nose was too worn to read..... (for what it's worth)

I would be careful doing something like that at an outstation. I wouldn't write up anything that admits you left the hub with an unairworthy plane. It probably wouldn't take much for management to have action taken by the feds.

 

[Raskal]

I would be careful doing something like that at an outstation. I wouldn't write up anything that admits you left the hub with an unairworthy plane. It probably wouldn't take much for management to have action taken by the feds.

And therein lies the potential problem with the write-up tactic. As I said before, I do believe it is by far the most effective method of trying to send a message but as PCL said earlier, 9E management notices very fast when their wallet is affected.

When writing those types of things up you have to be absolutely sure of your status and legality because the company's response to this kind of activity is usually as harsh and quick as possible. In other words, you have to be the biggest by-the-book pilot ever seen in all aspects of your job and not just the MEL. The company will find and use everything available to put a stop to it.

 

[Long Time Gone]

26 years is a little too ripe, if you know what I mean. If not, ask Ted Stevens.

Yup, I definitely want a heart surgeon with 2 years experience working on me instead of one with 26 years. I'd also definitely want a CA with 2 years of total experience to fly my wife and kids somewhere as opposed to someone who's been doing it for 26 years.

Great argument there, Gus.

Just because he's black, doesn't make him it. Besides, he's half black. Still has half white in him.

 

[Long Time Gone]

Unfortunately that one doesn't work. There's no requirement for the standby altimeter to be within tolerance of the primary altimeters. I only know this because I "expressed my concern about the accuracy of the standby altimeter" to Maintenance Control while I was at an outstation one time. Much to my surprise, they actually did fax me documentation from Bombardier proving their point. Lucky for me, I had already also determined that the spare fuses required by the FARs were missing and the ADG Placard on the right side of the nose was too worn to read..... (for what it's worth)

I'm with you. I've seen the memo that ASA put out after we started our campaign. However, please show me in the MEL where it is deferrable, or in the POH where the tolerances are. If I were 9E pilots and felt that the Standby Altimeter were a safety of flight issue, especially after I just took over the aircraft at a hub, I'd write it up at the outstation and have contract MX take a look at it. The contract MX will cost money, and the flight will be delayed by at least 2 hours or so.

The items you mentioned are dead on, as are many others. You can't do them at an outstation, though, because you obviously knowingly left the hub with knowledge of the discrepancy.

 

[Papps]

It is people like you who are ruining this industry. The fact is you do have a contract..... The way to help yourself is to do everything you can to help your company compete and succeed.

You are so sad.

RW

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