Bring Back People on furlough

[Blueridgeflyer]

Even folks who are junior SICs at fracs today will be putting in apps at the majors... where they can make more money....

The long rumored pilot shortage may actually be coming because nobody is flight training and you need more hours to hire 121. This is the calm before the storm....

--> Crystal ball off.

Potentially more money....but who's to say that NJA won’t be the next golden goose over the next 25 - 30 years? We simply can’t predict one way or the other. You wisely refer to the new the new 121 regs and a projected crimp to demand, all of which stands to benefit our profession in terms of future compensation. NJA will be right in the mix on this, as it will be their desire to attract quality applicants. Granted there will be some FOs that will jump ship, but I personally can’t rationalize such a move based on a couple of very important criteria..



1) Basing choices --don’t want to move to an undesirable part of the country just because I’m junior at Brand X. Been there done that at my previous 121. Yes I could commute but screw that.



2) Unwilling to walk away from 5+ yrs of longevity and voluntarily downgrade secondary benefits such as vacation that are tied to this.



3) Unwilling to trade my low 2000ish seniority number post NJI integration for 7700 (SWA), 11,200 (AA), or 12,300 (DL).



4) Unwilling to take a hit on my W2, that in all likelihood would take 5+ years to recover on average at a quality 121 carrier. It could be argued that NJA would begin upgrading SICs in that time frame, so it would be a financial wash at great loss to seniority.



5) Looking at the past 10 years at NJA in terms of increased compensation and contractual enhancements gives me reason to feel bullish on the future.

 

[gunfyter]

I'll drink to that.:beer:

 

[cldsfr79]

Here's an idea to bring back the furloughed guys. We need to create some sort of retirement plan. I'm not talking about a pension because I think those are a drain on the company, I'm thinking more on the lines of a golden handshake.

Most guys wont retire because they will go from $100k+ a year to social security and a moderate pension for some. That doesn't sound to appetizing.

Maybe for the guys 60 and a above they can be offered a severance package ($$$) based on the amount of years worked plus life time supplemental health benefits. Even if the company shells out a half million to a guy who worked 10+ years they will save money in the long run by hiring/bring back an FO at half the CA pay rate.

I think if this occurred the furloughed guys would be able to come back quickly as the old guys punch out.

Now if you state that NJA tried this prior to the furlough and it didn't have to many takes, I believe: 1. It was to little money and benefits 2. Everyone's 401k was in the toilet and the money offered may not have been enough to cover even their loses. Fast forward a year or so later, the stock market is a bit better gaining almost 5000 points in 2 years, 401ks looking a bit better, and if a little bit more money was tossed at these guys, they will jump.

 

[gret]

Don't know where to start, but it won't work and any CEO that even considered something like this would be shot on the spot. The day of full employment in the aviation industry is long gone and hopefully will never return. The US is a capitalist society and there is no obligation on businesses to make sure everyone has a job.


Regarding your proposal-

• Where is the cash going to come from to pay two pilots?
• Why would the company want to load up the liability side of their balance sheet with all of these promised benefits?
• The income statement hit would have the banks and shareholders looking for someone to knock off.
• Why would somebody age 60, who enjoys their job, take this package?

You're asking management to blow up the company so furloughed pilots can fly again?

There isn't a silver bullet that is going to fix the furlough issue that impacts business aviation, as well as most other industries. We experienced a bubble during 2005-2007, everybody thought they were geniuses, and now we're paying the price. Aviation, housing, construction, banking, autos, etc all over heated and recovery only comes with time and some pain.

Companies will not hire pilots until there is an increase in demand for planes.

 

[jonjuan]

Even if the company shells out a half million to a guy who worked 10+ years they will save money in the long run by hiring/bring back an FO at half the CA pay rate.

So using your theory, say the company offers this deal to 300 CAs. Are you saying that they would simply get rid of 300 CA jobs without upgrading 300 F/Os to take their positions and corresponding salaries?
Heck, why not just offer the same $500K to the bottom 300 F/Os and replace them with furloughees? Sounds like a great deal. :laugh:

 

[linder]

Maybe I left out the part where I worked at two other FBO's doing the same job before. Have you worked in a deli?

Maybe you left out the part that Signature knows that any unemployed pilot they hire is going to spend a lot of time asking the customers about any possible job openings. I've seen that a lot in the past.

 

[OPECJet]

Maybe you left out the part that Signature knows that any unemployed pilot they hire is going to spend a lot of time asking the customers about any possible job openings. I've seen that a lot in the past.

That is by no means a given. Certainly a possibility, but turnover seems to be fairly high in that job anyhow based on the number of new faces I used to see there. Only a few have been constant.

 

[CRAWDADDY]

Potentially more money....but who's to say that NJA won’t be the next golden goose over the next 25 - 30 years? We simply can’t predict one way or the other. You wisely refer to the new the new 121 regs and a projected crimp to demand, all of which stands to benefit our profession in terms of future compensation. NJA will be right in the mix on this, as it will be their desire to attract quality applicants. Granted there will be some FOs that will jump ship, but I personally can’t rationalize such a move based on a couple of very important criteria..



1) Basing choices --don’t want to move to an undesirable part of the country just because I’m junior at Brand X. Been there done that at my previous 121. Yes I could commute but screw that.
3) Unwilling to trade my low 2000ish seniority number post NJI integration for 7700 (SWA), 11,200 (AA), or 12,300 (DL).

The NJI merger has given us a more liberal HBA system which may bring back all of the furloughed pilots. Since taking advantage of the HBA system over 5 years ago, the amount of flying I have done it exactly 62.347% of what it was my last year in the base. I've run the numbers several times. Compared to the penultimate year in my previous base: 64.44%
Max: 64.984%
Min: 60.002%
No matter how I run the numbers, HBA pilots fly less and if their experiences are like mine: There are no paycuts associated with using an HBA.

It won't take many more people using the HBA system instead of driving hours to work for the company to need all of the pilots it put out on the street.

 

[imacdog]

I'm not that optimistic about the impact of opening up some HBA to a small number of pilots on property with regard to recalls, but it is certainly good for all NJA pilots to have access to those airports now.

 

[Jack Campbell]

The NJI merger has given us a more liberal HBA system which may bring back all of the furloughed pilots. Since taking advantage of the HBA system over 5 years ago, the amount of flying I have done it exactly 62.347% of what it was my last year in the base. I've run the numbers several times. Compared to the penultimate year in my previous base: 64.44%
Max: 64.984%
Min: 60.002%
No matter how I run the numbers, HBA pilots fly less and if their experiences are like mine: There are no paycuts associated with using an HBA.

It won't take many more people using the HBA system instead of driving hours to work for the company to need all of the pilots it put out on the street.

Sounds great, but that's not what a lot of us are hearing about recalls. I'll be surprised if our recall dates aren't "updated" early next year as the first expected recall date approaches. Its great they opened up HBAs for everyone on the property, though!