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[whatitdoing?]

If it's 500 pilots......I think that comes to around March or April 07 hires....

 

[Patriot328]

The flying he did was given away, nee, SOLD by mainline pilots. He, nor any other regional pilot, didn't "take" sh!t.

BINGO..

 

[Patriot328]

If it's 500 pilots......I think that comes to around March or April 07 hires....

That was the "worst case" number given to me by the 756 Fleet Manager, assuming no COLAs or early outs. He said everyone hired within the last year.

He and two other captains then continued their conversation about how happy they were to be able to work past 60.

 

[conman]

Okay,

I now understand your rationalization. So when your overseas code share partners start chipping away at your international flying from the U.S. , then you will gladly accept the blame for the loss of international flying.

 

[General Lee]

While this entire situation sucks, I am very impressed to see these guys (Larry and Jeff) sharing in the pain. I somehow don't think we'll see this repeated many times in this industry.

Jerry Grinstein gave his entire $10 million Chap 11 BK bonus away to the Delta employee emergency fund and scholorship fund. It has happened. Not many times though for sure.


Also, a friend of mine at United said one of thier captains talked to Glen Tilton directly on a flight from FRA to ORD a few days ago, and he flat out told them that UA and CAL were going to downsize, blend in their IT systems when they do their codeshare deal, and then try to merge again in 2 years if oil is lower.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PCL_128]

And you patriot 328 had nothing to do with the demise of the U.S. domestic feed??? Come on Patriot. You gladly flew service that was once flown by the mainline and no flown by the regional. You had no problem then did you.

Pathetic old man. You can't complain when someone is willing to do flying that you sold for a pittance. The only person for you to blame is the one staring right back at you in the mirror. Let me guess, working past age 60 while the bottom 500 get furloughed?

 

[conman]

PCL,

You call me a pathetic old man. I call you a scum bag value jet dc-9 FO. No, I have a long way to go to 60. Did they teach you how to become such a tough guy at the Gulfstream Flight Academy.

 

[WSurf]

PCL,

You call me a pathetic old man. I call you a scum bag value jet dc-9 FO. No, I have a long way to go to 60. Did they teach you how to become such a tough guy at the Gulfstream Flight Academy.

He went to Gulfstream Academy? Don't tell me he paid them to fly the 1900?

Wait don't tell me... Gulfstream, Pinnicle, AirTran?

LOL, Ahhhh hell I just realized I am still at Piedmont! I guess I will shut my piehole!! LOL

 

[vixin]

He sure did!

 

[WSurf]

Hmmm, well if I traveled that road I dont think I would have the right to be critical of anyone in aviation.

And he talks about others looking at themselves in a mirror? Pot meet Kettle!

 

[PlaneDrvr]

He went to Gulfstream Academy? Don't tell me he paid them to fly the 1900?

Wait don't tell me... Gulfstream, Pinnicle, AirTran?

LOL, Ahhhh hell I just realized I am still at Piedmont! I guess I will shut my piehole!! LOL

Yes, you got it PCL did 'pay for his job' at gulfstream, that is how he got into this business. He's a PFTer and will ALWAYS be nothing more than that.

PD

 

[luckytohaveajob]

PCL,

You call me a pathetic old man. I call you a scum bag value jet dc-9 FO. No, I have a long way to go to 60.

You Conman, have established your credibility today. Hope you have another $10 to buy a new screen name. Because CONMAN has been trashed with all your pull up the ladder attitude, I've got mine crap.

 

[conman]

Because CONMAN has been trashed with all your pull up the ladder attitude, I've got mine crap.

How do you figure that LTHAJ? I never said "pull up the ladder, I'm on board." I give my opinion on a CAL buyout for the older guys, saying it won't happen unless the pilot who replaces the clueless old man, will have to make less than the existing pilot he replaces. Look around corporate america. If a mid level manager/supervisor loses his or her job usually the replacement makes less money. That is a fact. If the CAL pilots aren't offering up pay cuts, work rule concessions, etc., which I hope they don't do. Then I don't think you'll see management offer up a buyout clause.

 

[MINIME]

Because CONMAN has been trashed with all your pull up the ladder attitude, I've got mine crap.

How do you figure that LTHAJ? I never said "pull up the ladder, I'm on board." I give my opinion on a CAL buyout for the older guys, saying it won't happen unless the pilot who replaces the clueless old man, will have to make less than the existing pilot he replaces. Look around corporate america. If a mid level manager/supervisor loses his or her job usually the replacement makes less money. That is a fact. If the CAL pilots aren't offering up pay cuts, work rule concessions, etc., which I hope they don't do. Then I don't think you'll see management offer up a buyout clause.

I thought I was following you on your notion of paying less for the same job. I think it's fair to say that none of us want to be paid less for performing the same job as the next guy. That is an established fact. Thus the reason why Unions have been fighting an uphill battle to level the playing field.

But drastic times call for drastic measures. The age 65 rule is part of the perfect storm that's hitting this industry. That along with record fuel prices, a slowing economy, currency devaluation, and airlines going out of business or revamping their business plans. As always, it seems that the junior guy always ends up getting a raw deal.

Would it not be fair to you, or even human, to ask some of the senior guys that have spent in excess of 30 years in this business, to not take the 5 year windfall? To allow the junior guy to continue to pay his mortgage? There's nothing unreasonable about that is there? These guys have probably accumulated over one or two million dollars in their retirements. Most of these guys should have plenty until the time comes to meet their maker.

If a buyout is offered by the company, the MEC should support it while lobbying the senior guys to take it. I doubt anyone is going to look at the guy that replaces that position as a person lowering the bar.

 

[Jmoney]

Not True....

Jerry Grinstein gave his entire $10 million Chap 11 BK bonus away to the Delta employee emergency fund and scholorship fund. It has happened. Not many times though for sure.


Also, a friend of mine at United said one of thier captains talked to Glen Tilton directly on a flight from FRA to ORD a few days ago, and he flat out told them that UA and CAL were going to downsize, blend in their IT systems when they do their codeshare deal, and then try to merge again in 2 years if oil is lower.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Do you know how I am sure NONE OF THIS IS TRUE, General?

Because it is HIGHLY ILLEGAL....... Just look up "Insider trading." You will see what I mean...

There is no official from any airline who's going to share this type of info with someone from the outside. That official would soon wind up in jail....

-Your story has grown tiresome, it is time to dance...

 

[Flopgut]

Hmmm, well if I traveled that road I dont think I would have the right to be critical of anyone in aviation.

And he talks about others looking at themselves in a mirror? Pot meet Kettle!

PCL did not campaign for another's job. APAAD and the age 65 crowd did. They've taken it right off the top, outside the CBA, just like scabs. Period.

I'd rather work with 100 guys/gals like PCL than 1 scab.

 

[johnsonrod]

Do you know how I am sure NONE OF THIS IS TRUE, General?

Because it is HIGHLY ILLEGAL....... Just look up "Insider trading." You will see what I mean...

There is no official from any airline who's going to share this type of info with someone from the outside. That official would soon wind up in jail....

-Your story has grown tiresome, it is time to dance...

Could you make LESS sense? I highly doubt it.

 

[EMB170Pilot]

PCL did not campaign for another's job. APAAD and the age 65 crowd did. They've taken it right off the top, outside the CBA, just like scabs. Period.

I'd rather work with 100 guys/gals like PCL than 1 scab.

something something something DARK SIDE!


something something something COMPLETE!

 

[Flopgut]

Because CONMAN has been trashed with all your pull up the ladder attitude, I've got mine crap.

How do you figure that LTHAJ? I never said "pull up the ladder, I'm on board." I give my opinion on a CAL buyout for the older guys, saying it won't happen unless the pilot who replaces the clueless old man, will have to make less than the existing pilot he replaces. Look around corporate america. If a mid level manager/supervisor loses his or her job usually the replacement makes less money. That is a fact. If the CAL pilots aren't offering up pay cuts, work rule concessions, etc., which I hope they don't do. Then I don't think you'll see management offer up a buyout clause.

CAL has previously offered buyouts. They will this time as well it's just a matter of how much they offer.

Something that will come to bear: Old pilots with lot's of sick leave make terrible employees. CAL has experience with this. In Contract 97 IACP threw the old guys a bone and put 12 yr FE rates at 100/hr. So when an age 60+ pilot decided to go fly FE they no longer needed the sick leave they had been hoarding to pay for bridge medical. They called in sick every other trip and could've cared less about the company. CAL wants to avoid this and may offer more than they have in the past to get these pilots retired.

 

[EMB170Pilot]

PCL did not campaign for another's job. APAAD and the age 65 crowd did. They've taken it right off the top, outside the CBA, just like scabs. Period.

I'd rather work with 100 guys/gals like PCL than 1 scab.

Who cares Flop, he's still a dork for "paying for his job". How F'ing stupid are you PFT? With all of your daddy's money, you could have split a whole lot of multi time with friends and had more fun.

 

[AA717driver]

EMB170--I don't know what you're talking about but your Hooter's waitress girlfriend is smokin'!

Which one does she work at? (I got a list a mile long of the ones she DOESN'T! ) TC

 

[atrdriver]

Yeah, when two millionaires forgo some pocket change it brings a tear to one's eye.

Well, it's certainly more than any of the other airline executives are doing. Certainly more than Mullen or Carty did.

 

[conman]

Flopgut,

All airlines loathe sick leave. They will harass pilots at all levels of seniority. If there is another round of givebacks coming, I can assure you that anal glaucoma will be rampant throughout the entire pilot
workforce.

 

[Flopgut]

Flopgut,

All airlines loathe sick leave. They will harass pilots at all levels of seniority. If there is another round of givebacks coming, I can assure you that anal glaucoma will be rampant throughout the entire pilot
workforce.

No. Trust me, this is different. You can't have 2 or 2.5 777CAs for 1 job for an entire 5 year period.

 

[turbinej]

Man Power Planning says 350 COLA being offered and 450 notice to furlough letters being sent out. Furloughs that actually happen off the bat is 300. 150 in Sept and 150 in Oct and 150 in Nov if needed. Sending out letters to all 450 just incase they do decide to furlough the full 450.

Notice of furlough will be sent to a pilot who is to be furloughed at his address
of record on file with the Company, at least thirty-two (32) Calendar Days in​

advance of the effective date of the furlough.

 

[Phrogs4ever]

That seems a bit aggressive since we only need to shed 252 pilots over the next year and a half. (Net loss of 737s 31x10 pilots/plane = -310...Net gain of 777s 2x29 pilots/plane = 58...Net loss of pilots 310-58 = 252) I think someone believes pbs hasn't been given the proper opportunity to show its mettle. Can you say OSC and Denial Mode 4 again?

BTW, I hope we don't furlough at all!

 

[motch]

It's all fear mongering from the company exactly a week before the June 11th rally!

Give it time people.

As far as letters go?! If you ARE going to F on Sept 1.. then you would send the letters out mid July. And that would mean parking planes on 1 Sept too.. still havn't seen any exact time frame for parking airplanes, just the delivery dates for the new 73's we're still getting!

 

[turbinej]

At the end we will only have a loss of 31 aircraft by the end of 2009. But there is a 6-9 month time period where the loss of aircraft is greater than that of deliveries. Any furlough for the first two groups I personally think will be less than a year. Based on future aircraft orders.

 

[list2002]

Isn't there a minimum length of time necessary for an F to actually save money? Like turbine said, if the net loss will only take place for a few months and then the deliveries start catching up, that may be too short for F's to make any sense. Dunno, positive thinking.

 

[General Lee]

What would be the hire date of the last guy of the 450 getting a furlough letter? Would it be June of 07?

Bye Bye--General Lee