Braking...

[crjdude]

I was a Captain for a regional and a national prior to my current fractional job so I'm fairly familiar with the "transfer of controls" on landing when it's the FO's leg.

That being said...

What the heck is up with the unbelievably hard braking on almost every RJ flight I'm on?

10,000' runway and the Captain's brake like it's 3,000'!!!

Whatever happened to smooth technique vs. mechanically flying the airplane?
Jeez...

crjdude

 

[machaf]

Tell me about it. I don't get it either. Unless the runway is contaminated.

In the summer time one guy I flew with would slam on the brakes, the reserves wouldn't even deploy and be spooled up before he had to stow them at 80kias... I've never seen the brake temps get that high before.

 

[zasca]

i don't brake...... sh!t, I fly a prop.....

 

[ExHeloGuy]

Gotta make the first high speed!!! My car is waiting

 

[regionalcap]

Part of the problem could be not planning the runway exit.

 

[Rekks Inbound]

Part of the problem could be not planning the runway exit.

Am currently on the CRJ (the only thing we fly), and I see this all the time. But the real problem is briefing that 'we'll clear to the left at taxiway XXX'. This sets up an unconcious dynamic that you MUST make that taxiway, hence the heavy braking. And I notice it more out of FO's, but of course I haven't been paired with a CA for many years!

Peace.

Rekks

 

[V-1]

There was a time when regional First Officers were hired with 2000-3000 hours of serious non traffic pattern experience.

Vref in an RJ is faster than any airplane most new First Officers have any PIC time in these days.

Perhaps they're just panicking?

 

[princeton]

I was a Captain for a regional and a national prior to my current fractional job so I'm fairly familiar with the "transfer of controls" on landing when it's the FO's leg.

That being said...

What the heck is up with the unbelievably hard braking on almost every RJ flight I'm on?

10,000' runway and the Captain's brake like it's 3,000'!!!

Whatever happened to smooth technique vs. mechanically flying the airplane?
Jeez...

crjdude

It could be due to the fact that that is the technique that we are told to use to minimize brake-wear.

In the case of the ERJ, at least, with the new carbon brakes the brake wear is least when you apply the brakes for the least amount of TIME.

So you are meant to brake heavily for a short period of time letting them get as hot as necessary as the brakes are most effective when hot and then release the brakes completely and not apply them again until you need to apply heavily again.

The opposite than used to be the case with old style brakes where the preferred method was a smooth application.

 

[The_Russian]

How often do you thermal tires?

 

[Willy21]

It could be due to the fact that that is the technique that we are told to use to minimize brake-wear.

In the case of the ERJ, at least, with the new carbon brakes the brake wear is least when you apply the brakes for the least amount of TIME.

So you are meant to brake heavily for a short period of time letting them get as hot as necessary as the brakes are most effective when hot and then release the brakes completely and not apply them again until you need to apply heavily again.

The opposite than used to be the case with old style brakes where the preferred method was a smooth application.

So why not roll out a while and then apply the brakes? The slower you are the less time you would have to use max braking.

 

[CX880]

Who cares as long as you don't find yourself next to a gas station at the end of the rollout.

 

[SpyFlysDOTs]

Maturity,

I usually brief, we will turn off at the end..cause we have a min cool down of 3 min anyhow, so why rush off the runway?

Also, if you stuck it in the TDZ then that slam the brakes on isn't usually necessary, even if you are going to make a highspeed.

Based ORD

 

[Willy21]

Who cares as long as you don't find yourself next to a gas station at the end of the rollout.

Maybe the white knuckle flyer that has never flown before cares. Shouldn't we as professional pilots try to do things as smooth as possible?

10,000 ft let it roll, Key West in the CRJ lock them up. Just know the difference.

 

[Thedude]

Who cares as long as you don't find yourself next to a gas station at the end of the rollout.

I do. Because I am tired of eating the seat in front of me because some nincompoop cant roll to the next taxi-way exit. Yet another reason to hate RJs.

 

[siucavflight]

I just do it cause it is fun.

 

[pdub20s]

I can think of a few reason:

1. Your in JFK or a busy airport and you have a 757,etc on short final behind you and you need to exit quickly

2. ERJ carbon fiber breaks wear better when heated

3. Told to exit at the next high-speed *see reason #1*

4. your FO or CA ate up a lot of runway on his floating landing

..anyone care to add more????

 

[VxClimb]

What the heck is up with the unbelievably hard braking on almost every RJ flight I'm on?

It's for that passenger that got on and said, "this thing is so small is it safe?"

 

[DrewBlows]

Vref in an RJ is faster than any airplane most new First Officers have any PIC time in these days.

Vref in a CRJ is faster than any airplane most general aviation pilots have PIC time in.

It's not just an experience issue. I've flown with very experienced Captains who ruin my smooth landing by taking the aircraft and slamming on the brakes to make a high speed turn off. "Smooth" is a priority for some pilots, not so much for others.

 

[great cornholio]

So why not roll out a while and then apply the brakes? The slower you are the less time you would have to use max braking.

3 reasons for me.

1. I want to make sure my brakes actually work so if they don't work I have more time and runway ahead of me to see if the other guys brakes work, if his don't we will be off the end cause most of our fleet don't have reverse.

2. Our company policy is to try to heat the brakes up pretty good by doing hopefully one nice steady braking action. According to the brake guys getting them hot fast and having a steady increasing braking action during the landing roll saves brake life.

3. ATC seems to want us off the runway ASAP any more (IAD is bad enough about it they even have it in the ATIS) Seems like more often than not in hub airports someone is right up your six on final or tower is trying to launch a guy in a gap and want you off the runway so they can get that guy going.

 

[shamrock]

I do. Because I am tired of eating the seat in front of me because some nincompoop cant roll to the next taxi-way exit. Yet another reason to hate RJs.

I find that the roughest/jerkiest (is that a word?) landings seem to be on MD-88s. It feels like the Captain has to haul on the brakes and do his own version of anti-skid as soon as he takes the controls. Maybe is aircraft or Delta-specific but that's just my take.

 

[G2T]

But the real problem is briefing that 'we'll clear to the left at taxiway XXX'. This sets up an unconcious dynamic that you MUST make that taxiway, hence the heavy braking. And I notice it more out of FO's, but of course I haven't been paired with a CA for many years!

Peace.

Rekks

I don't see a problem with having a plan of where I am going to get off the runway, especially since my company teaches you to brief it that way. If I plan on getting off the rwy at a certain taxiway for a good reason, and it takes getting on the brakes to do it, what's the problem? In that case passenger comfort wasn't my biggest concern. It's like the pax that complains the landing was rough when you just planted it down in a gusting xwind near the limits, they don't always know what defines a good landing.

 

[crjdude]

Just because you brief we'll make taxiway such and such doesn't mean you have to stand on the brakes to do it. Especially with plenty of runway remaining. There are pax to consider...

It's called judgement.

Just seems like a high percentage of my flights aboard RJ's end with "emergency" braking.

crjdude

 

[Rekks Inbound]

I don't see a problem with having a plan of where I am going to get off the runway, especially since my company teaches you to brief it that way. If I plan on getting off the rwy at a certain taxiway for a good reason, and it takes getting on the brakes to do it, what's the problem? In that case passenger comfort wasn't my biggest concern. It's like the pax that complains the landing was rough when you just planted it down in a gusting xwind near the limits, they don't always know what defines a good landing.

Exactly my point. There is only one taxiway you have to make, and that is the LAST USABLE AVAILABLE ONE!. I really don't care what ATC says, and by asking you, in the middle of the landing rollout, to clear at a specific TW, they are essentially asking for a LAHSO, without actually saying so. Last I checked, LAHSO's can only be accepted under certain conditions. But I digress.

You don't care about pax comfort? Who pays your paycheck? Customers, ultimately.

I don't know who your MX dept. is, but ours (AWAC) is noticing a dramatic INCREASE in brake wear and MX costs, but of course that may also have something to do with reduced TR usage, but heavy (read excessive) brake usage probably has more to do with it.

Peace.

Rekks

 

[Sig]

I don't know who your MX dept. is, but ours (AWAC) is noticing a dramatic INCREASE in brake wear and MX costs...

PHL 35? I'm pretty impressed with the way you guys split the TDZ after the micromanaged final they make all of us fly sometimes.

 

[Flyin2low]

I don't know who your MX dept. is, but ours (AWAC) is noticing a dramatic INCREASE in brake wear and MX costs, but of course that may also have something to do with reduced TR usage, but heavy (read excessive) brake usage probably has more to do with it.

Peace.

Rekks

Welcome to the NE

 

[goahead]

Yea because only RJ's use hard braking.........
Let's see the MD-88 is the worst, followed by the DC-9 etc.....

 

[AngelKing]

I just do it cause it is fun.

LMAO..........sorry.

AK

 

[bmpilot2003]

Am currently on the CRJ (the only thing we fly), and I see this all the time. But the real problem is briefing that 'we'll clear to the left at taxiway XXX'. This sets up an unconcious dynamic that you MUST make that taxiway, hence the heavy braking. And I notice it more out of FO's, but of course I haven't been paired with a CA for many years!

Peace.

Rekks

Whats even funnier is when you fly with FOs and they brief where I AM going to exit the runway. To funny. To all the FOs out there who do this i ask you this question, ARE YOU DRIVING ON THE GROUND.... NO! I will exit the runway when and where my speed permits after you've floated all the way to the end of the touchdown zone.

 

[PositionandHold]

i don't brake...... sh!t, I fly a prop.....

bc BETA is sexy.

 

[CallmeJB]

I don't know who your MX dept. is, but ours (AWAC) is noticing a dramatic INCREASE in brake wear and MX costs, but of course that may also have something to do with reduced TR usage, but heavy (read excessive) brake usage probably has more to do with it.

Peace.

Rekks

We fly CRJs, he flies ERJs. We have steel brakes, they have carbon brakes. As has been said, steel brakes wear from heat buildup. Carbon brakes wear by number of applications, regardless of heat. So, once you put the pedals down, keep'em down; if you let anything up and then reapply, it's instantly double the wear. I don't really get it, but everyone I know who flies erjs swears that it's true.

PHL 35? I'm pretty impressed with the way you guys split the TDZ after the micromanaged final they make all of us fly sometimes.

Thanks, we aim to please. I'm routinely impressed all over the NE with the short approaches you Dash drivers make.