Boyd negative on SkyBus, thinks its' dumb idea

[AA717driver]

In seriousness, have any of you worked a real crap job before? I see these comparisons to whataburger and home depot and it makes me wonder how out of touch some of you are with the working world. It shouldn't be an excuse to settle for less, but the average person works for absolute crap pay. We as pilots, even now, are in the pay realm of skilled/educated professional. I would like to see it go back to where it was, but even Skybus is worlds away from whataburger pay. Flame suit donned.

Yeah, I've worked crap jobs--both in and out of the aviation business.

A320 CA is NOT an entry level position. $65k is not sufficient pay for a top-of-the-pyramid skill level in aviation. He!!, $65k works out to be $35k in 1986 (when I started in the commuters). That's what SAAB 340 Capt's. were making back then.

Does that put it in perspective? TC

 

[vixin]

Philerup...uh ok Francis. Skytrash sucks!

 

[canyonblue]

Delta's profits

Bye Bye--General Lee

Now there's an oxymoron. :laugh:

 

[Philerup]

I am making a lot of enemies here so I think I will quit while I am ahead. For the record, I do not work at Skybus. I like everyone else, want to see pay come back. I am just debating your methods.

If you all manage to get all Skybus pilots blackballed at all worthwhile carriers, you may think you are hurting the Skybus pilots, in reality you are handing their management the club they will bludgeon you with. A captive pilot group is a managements wet dream. A pilot that cannot go anywhere has all the more motivation to ensure his company survives, whatever the cost. If they have options, they will walk when the payoff doesn't come. What hurts the company worse, pilots that can leave and get hired at a good carrier or a pilot group with no other options than to accept whatever the management gives them?

If you want to affect the wage in the industry, you have to find a way to work with these guys. Startups are a fact of life. If it wasn't Skybus, it would be someone else. It is doubtful they will be the last. There is always someone willing to throw away good money to finance someones aviation dream. There is always someone willing to work for crap wages with the hope of a future payoff.

I am not defending Skybus, rather I am encouraging all of you to think strategically. Coming on here and insulting people is not solving anything. You may convince some pilots not to go there, but you will not convince all. Your insults are not stopping Skybus. More likely you are alienating the ones that are there and making them more and more militant. If you do not want low paying pilots working against you, you need to have them working with you.

I also think pilots as a whole need to drop this knight in shining armor, dueling the elements to get passengers home safely. Stop with the doctor comparison too, and the number of lives responsible for. We need to negotiate from a place of honesty, not inflated ego's. We deserve to be compensated well because we spend half of our life away from home in the service of our companies. We also have multiple opportunities to lose our career at the drop of a hat. For that we deserve good pay. We are not heroes and this is not a hard job. It has it's stressful moments, but for the most part it is not that bad. We deserve good pay to make up for all the time we miss, no more no less. Save the hero stories for the drunk chick at the bar.

 

[vixin]

If you all manage to get all Skybus pilots blackballed at all worthwhile carriers, you may think you are hurting the Skybus pilots, in reality you are handing their management the club they will bludgeon you with. A captive pilot group is a managements wet dream. A pilot that cannot go anywhere has all the more motivation to ensure his company survives, whatever the cost. If they have options, they will walk when the payoff doesn't come. What hurts the company worse, pilots that can leave and get hired at a good carrier or a pilot group with no other options than to accept whatever the management gives them?

They can work elsewhere before going to Skytrash. Why even apply with those crappy wages.

 

[Philerup]

I don't know why. I haven't asked anyone who works there. What I am encouraging is instead of trying to understand someones motivation or insult them, spend that energy figuring out how to negate the impact. My contention is that insults and blacklists are not the way. We have to deal with the reality that they and VA have a certificate and are flying. The why is no longer important. Time to deal with the way things are, not what we wish they were.

 

[vixin]

While I agree with you in a small way. I cannot accept the fact the these morons think it is OK to fly for those wages.

 

[skiandsurf]

Stop with the doctor comparison too, and the number of lives responsible for. We need to negotiate from a place of honesty, not inflated ego's. We deserve to be compensated well because we spend half of our life away from home in the service of our companies. We also have multiple opportunities to lose our career at the drop of a hat. For that we deserve good pay. We are not heroes and this is not a hard job. It has it's stressful moments, but for the most part it is not that bad. We deserve good pay to make up for all the time we miss, no more no less. Save the hero stories for the drunk chick at the bar.

I agree with most of what you say, in fact this is what I have been saying. If the "good" airlines would hire the "qualified" pilots, there wouldnt be anyone left for Skybus. I know a few of the guys at Skybus, and they are all very qualified and great guys.

But the "hero" bit, we are not heros. We are pilots that manage a crew, passengers, and other variables that we run up against (wx, mx, ATC, sick pax, emerg situations, etc). Sure, when everything is going good, the job is easy.....just the the CEOs job. When sh!t starts to hit the fan, we step up to the plate and earn our pay.

Remember this, next time your buddy or neighbor asks "how was your trip?" your answer should be something like..."the flights were smooth, but I missed my kids graduation on the second day of the trip, then my wife called saying that the washing machine leaked water all over the floor, damaging the carpet. Then I had a co-pilot that got food poisoning and we had to get a replacement, this delaying our flight by 1 hour, with screaming passengers. Then one day, the airport was fogged in, and we did an approach to minimums. And the hotel, that is usually good, was busy with teenage kids, and I didnt get any sleep on the last night. I am wiped out. How was your week at work?"

 

[capt. megadeth]

Dude, I had too much to drink tonight to type. :bawling:

Having worked crap jobs, I can say that I still think 65K is too low for an A320 capt. I can see it for 1st or 2nd year FO, but a CAPTAIN of an A320???? Too low!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What does an FO make?

 

[dtfl]

Boyd will get fried on this one. Maybe we will forget the reasons Skybus has troubles and just remember Boyd's prediction they will fail. If that is true he may get away unscathed. He always messes up his reasons.

Whether or not Skybus lasts is an unknown, but it does not look too good.

At a minimum, they will make a big, temporary splash.

They chose a hub relatively near CVG. Delta's stronghold and the source of huge fares and profits for Delta. Delta's profit will go down.

Do we really think we have this LCC thing totally figured out and have crystalized it into the the only shape it can take? Ryan Air has torn the cover off the ball. There is a chance Skybus will to.

Boyd really falls down trying to look at what SWA is doing in response to competition and looking at Skybus. This value thing is a moving target and you change it around and try new things to keep, as well as attract, new customers. Skybus is in attract mode.

SWA's, and everyone elses', reaction to Skybus will be different. We may see a good ole' fashioned fare war for a time. But maybe not right away. I also think airlines will adopt some of Skybus' new ways. You'll see. I'll be back to tell you I told you so. Boyd won't admit his error.


All I know for sure is profits on routes into and out of Columbus and Cincinnati will go down for awhile.

Ryan air is doing well, but Europe and the US are totally different markets!
Europe is FULL of kids and gipsy's (my Borat coming out) who will fly them for next to nothing...we in the U.S at least want a coke.

 

[General Lee]

Now there's an oxymoron. :laugh:

You laugh, but we used to be one of the most profitable airlines on the planet. Then, we had management blunders like buying $2 billion in stock back (aren't you guys buying stock back?) two weeks before 9-11, and watching that evaporate before our eyes. Blunders. And look, now you guys are getting some bad press and downgrades. You just never know.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[SNOWBUM]

I wouldnt complain if I could come to work with a pair of cut-off jeans, tattooed sleves, my ears pierced, and then go smoke a big fattie during my lunch break. But I cant.

snowbum likes the way you think....I do miss those fatties

 

[Green]

Here's an idea fly for Skybus as a Airbus Captain, 7-8 mts from now when an ALPA carrier merges with them, you'll now be senior to 12-15 year pilots. That's the trend. Any thoughts??

Read the Nicalau award before you go spouting off with nonsense. Alpa merger policy takes into account the value of jobs brought to the table and expected career progression among other items. Now the career progression of a Skybus Captain is to make 65k plus or minus a couple dollars for the rest of his/her career. If you stapled the number 1 skybus pilot to the bottom of any airline in this country you would not cost the Skybus pilot a single dollar with regards to his future earnings. He had no reasonable expectation of ever making 150k/plus...

Now if AAA had gone DOH we (awa) would have captains making 140/hr and holding a good line suddenly slotted below furloughed pilots with no expectation of EVER being recalled. Two totally different scenarios...

Many don't realize that Nicalaou is sharper than most of us will ever be and he didn't pull this one out of his hat....

 

[NEDude]

Having worked crap jobs, I can say that I still think 65K is too low for an A320 capt. I can see it for 1st or 2nd year FO, but a CAPTAIN of an A320???? Too low!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What does an FO make?

But they aren't A320s, they are A319s. That makes it okay.....

 

[Fly4hire]

If you all manage to get all Skybus pilots blackballed at all worthwhile carriers, you may think you are hurting the Skybus pilots, in reality you are handing their management the club they will bludgeon you with. A captive pilot group is a managements wet dream.

I can see your logic, however the business model, if successful, will do far more damage to the pilot groups throughout the industry long before the pilots organize or demand better pay and benefits.

JB has still not organized or gotten substantially better wages - they have simply lowered the bar for the rest of the industry and now crow proudly about how they get paid as much or more than the legacy pilots their company helped lower the bar on. If anything the LCC pilots are more arrogant now than before in rationalizing their previous actions.

No, the strategic move is to do everything possible to make the Skybus business model inviable. Crew shortages and difficulty getting your pilots to work is part of that strategy. It's not about the pilots, but they are combatant's for an enemy corporation that wants to profit on at your expense. They are not getting a free ride to work to accomplish that goal.