Book about SWA says AA pilots are "arrogant"

[BigMotorToter]

From the best-selling book "The Southwest Airlines Way: Using the Power of Relationships to Achieve High Performance" by Jody Hoffer Gittell (McGraw-Hill, page 97), I offer these considered and carefully researched views:

"For pilots, American's hiring practices were notable not just for over-looking relational competence, but for running counter to it. In addition to flight training and experience, American Airlines looked for pilots with qualities . . . . In the opinion of an employee relations manager:

"We look for command presence, the most self-assured arrogant people we can possibly find. Then we teach them to be be even more arrogant, so to speak."

The results of this hiring process were problematic, according to this manager:

"There is a certain amount of hostility that pilots face from the other employee groups. The personality of the pilot generates that hostility." This presonality was not inherent to pilots, however, but rather was a artifact of the hiring process. And as we will see in Chap 11, this hiring process for pilots clearly contributed to the failure of efforts at American Airlines to move toward shared accountability for delays."

 

[jjetpilot]

Right on the money for mainline AA........no doubt

 

[vc10]

Whatever the truth of the matter about AA pilots, this book is, overall, pretty bad. Business school gobbledy gook that misses a lot of the reasons why SWA is so successful.

A much better book about SWA that came out at about the same time is "Southwest Passage" by Lamar Muse, SWA's first CEO. He's a crusty old coot, but it's a pretty good book.

From the best-selling book "The Southwest Airlines Way: Using the Power of Relationships to Achieve High Performance" by Jody Hoffer Gittell (McGraw-Hill, page 97), I offer these considered and carefully researched views:

"For pilots, American's hiring practices were notable not just for over-looking relational competence, but for running counter to it. In addition to flight training and experience, American Airlines looked for pilots with qualities . . . . In the opinion of an employee relations manager:

"We look for command presence, the most self-assured arrogant people we can possibly find. Then we teach them to be be even more arrogant, so to speak."

The results of this hiring process were problematic, according to this manager:

"There is a certain amount of hostility that pilots face from the other employee groups. The personality of the pilot generates that hostility." This presonality was not inherent to pilots, however, but rather was a artifact of the hiring process. And as we will see in Chap 11, this hiring process for pilots clearly contributed to the failure of efforts at American Airlines to move toward shared accountability for delays."

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Don't know about the quality of the book. These books try to be controversial in order to sell more books. Every author wants to reveal some hidden kernel of truth no one else knows.

My personal opinion is most majors simply did not try to screen out arrogance. Arrogance is an operational hazard for pilots that is avoidable but usually accepted. AA and others look for highly skilled, confident pilots. Pilots that would transition well into new airplanes and into the captain seat. They consciously or unconsciously looked for a "Captain" to hire. I don't think they actively sought out arrogant pilots.

I know some AA pilots and I would say they are no more arrogant than any other group. I know a couple of arrogant pilots that were turned down by AA.

SWA is unique for screening out arrogance. There are other reasons why SWA is unique. Figuring out which differences are key to SWA's success is a difficult task.

 

[C77MD80]

not true...

they are AArrogant

 

[ironspud]

"For pilots, American's hiring practices were notable not just for over-looking relational competence

ImAAgine thAAt. AArrogAAnt AAnd Stupid. WhAAt AA surprise.

 

[DH2WN]

Whatever the truth of the matter about AA pilots, this book is, overall, pretty bad. Business school gobbledy gook that misses a lot of the reasons why SWA is so successful.

A much better book about SWA that came out at about the same time is "Southwest Passage" by Lamar Muse, SWA's first CEO. He's a crusty old coot, but it's a pretty good book.

You can't even buy that book anymore. It's been out of print for a while and Amazon doesn't even have used one's for sale.

The other book is a good business school book. Really breaks down the industry from a numbers standpoint. Good read.

 

[propsarebest]

THEY DON'T CALL IT AAMERIGANT AIRLINES FOR NOTHING

 

[Wesb737fo]

Hey there big motor,

I'm just curious, did you have a bad experience at AA? I'm not trying to start anything. I have flown with alot of people and have run across quite a few arrogant folks who occupy flight decks. So why just single out AA. My brother works there. I am biased since he is my brother, but while he can be a jerk, I don't see him to be arrogant. Nor would I say that about any of his friends that work there.

Who can really explain the hiring processes at different airlines during the past decades. I haven't read the book in question, but apparently it makes the claim that management purposely hired only the aholes. IS there some sort of test they administered. If so I would like to see that.

I like to keep a sense of humor about these things. I bet if we took a poll from all the pilot groups we can find someone out there (not just the Eagle guys) with the best "ahole pilot" story. I bet there are even some at SWA ( god forbid). I guess I don't really have a point, but I don't see any reason to chuck rocks at one particular pilot group.

 

[PastFastMover]

I have flown with two majors and an upstart that became a major. Have many friends at all the airlines and really can not tell a hoot of difference among them. It always interests me why pilots love to bash other pilots. I have never quite understood that. Do Doctors do that? Do Lawyers do that? Do other professions do that?

Looking at that quote from the book above, what a bunch of bunk. But if its in writing, then it must be true and everyone is free to pile on. What a bunch of hoooey.

Bad mouthing, calling someone stupid, ignorant or whatever, Methinks some have an inferiority complex or did not quite get to the level of their profession thay they once imagined. Or the company they were at was destroyed by incompetent management, so the above posters must find someone to blame their plight on.

 

[AAflyer]

Actually I was hoping he could post a few more airplanes on his profile, that way when he responds there will be nothing to read.


Never been called arrogant, I was called a big "richard" by me ex wife but not arrogant. That's ok though, labeling over 10000 pilots from all services and many different airlines as arrogant is rather ignorant.

Have a nice a DAAY!!

AA

 

[frank rizzo]

Ive never seen more of a srewed up outfit a AA pilot stalked my wife and she had to get a restraining order, to top it off we tell their Chief Pilot and he didnt do crap. One thing is for sure i wont put my family on a AA flight.

 

[AAflyer]

Thanks Frank,

Please don't fly AA, and please tell your wife to SToP calling me, I am not interested!!!

AA

 

[labbats]

I believe it is the first and foremost duty of the Chief Pilot to scold pilots for alleged stalking. I'll review the contract.

 

[bestpilot]

Thanks Frank,

Please don't fly AA, and please tell your wife to SToP calling me, I am not interested!!!

AA

AA, Duuuude, that's not nice, naw, bro, not nice at all.

Hey, Frank, my brother from another mother, have you and da wife buy some tiks on goood ole Air Tran. Dem boys and gals at the Tranny will treat you awright! Whilst da boys at AA are soundin like they be ready to withouts your biz-niz, the Tranny appreciates all the peeps they can get!

Get your tik on da Tranny and they'll be thankin you and your wife for da support!

 

[bobs98tlr]

ImAAgine thAAt. AArrogAAnt AAnd Stupid. WhAAt AA surprise.

Im not really gonna commet on your quote, just wanted to say that your avatar is really cool. The FBO i work at has a MOHAWK on the ramp right now. VERY awsome airplane. One of my favorites.

 

[Daveman]

NUTS!

K&J Freiberg.

 

[Corona]

I like to keep a sense of humor about these things. I bet if we took a poll from all the pilot groups we can find someone out there (not just the Eagle guys) with the best "ahole pilot" story. I bet there are even some at SWA ( god forbid). I guess I don't really have a point, but I don't see any reason to chuck rocks at one particular pilot group.

Ironically, the ONLY SWA pilot I know by name is one of the biggest aholes known to aviation. He has quite a bad reputation here in the Northwest where he has a lot of history. SWA's reputation went down several points with me when I heard they hired him.

That being said; all the other SWA pilots I've met over the years all seemed like good folk to me.

C

 

[Ty Webb]

Ironically, the ONLY SWA pilot I know by name is one of the biggest aholes known to aviation. He has quite a bad reputation here in the Northwest where he has a lot of history. SWA's reputation went down several points with me when I heard they hired him.

That being said; all the other SWA pilots I've met over the years all seemed like good folk to me.

C

Was he hired after 2004 . . . . . and did he have a history of taxiing too fast?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[SWA/FO]

Yep, sad to say we have a few here... I have no idea how they got in?