Bonanza Wreck LOU

100-1/2

OVER-N-DUN!
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20-something pilot killed in an E-36.

Looks like multiple legs between MDW/LOU over recent days.

Several small potato outfits and a sub-par broker running a couple of cherokee 6's over the last couple of years have been jockiing for this route.

Looks like an aircraft without de-ice equipment flying through Forecast[Multiple Airmets] and Known Ice [multiple PIREPs] early in the morning.

Some tool was kind enough to post pictures of the wreck on the Flight Aware Registration info within hours of the crash. What an A$$WHOLE!

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N7472N

RIP kid.
100-1/2
 

Cardinal

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That's very sad to hear. The heaviest icing i've encountered in 6 years of of flying turboprops was just Tuesday, within a couple hundred miles of that crash. FO and I were talking about what it would be like in an A/C without deice equipment....
 

100-1/2

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It's official- CP of Freight Broker turned Air Carrier with a pair of cherokee 6's.

http://www.kcci.com/money/18311435/detail.html

The owner of the company ran 2 Cherokees for almost 2 years even though he only had one on certificate. Word around LOU was he bragged about having an "in" at the FSDO. "Certificated in less than 6 months." Not sure he is even a pilot himself.

Current FAA Records don't list a Bonanza on certificate.

http://av-info.faa.gov/detail.asp?DSGN_CODE=QZOA&OPER_FAR=135&OPER_NAME=AIR+OPS+INC


Here we go. Mad dash by the FAA to deeply[more] scrutinize the rest of us because some loser was cutting corners right in their FSDO's front yard.

Can you also say, MAJOR rewrite to FAR 119.71(c) and/or the complete loss of a waiver of certain experience requirements in this part?

"Surely as CP with the appropriate and required experience, this tragedy would have never happened...." Infinite FAA Wisdom expected.

Never mind the loser running the joint likely brow-beat the kid into flying in that weather without the appropriate equipment to adequately address the elements. In this market there were likely more than enough meat-sacs standing by ready to take the CP's position.

With people like this running air carriers, we all lose eventually.

Prayers for the family. If any one knows them, please, make sure they know there was a minimum of $75k coming to them from the insurance Air Ops was required to have for their Economic Authority.
It is over and above any other coverages the CP might have had through his personal policy.

100-1/2
 

Princedietrich

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Considering that this is happening in the SDF back yard, I can tell you precisely what the local FAA reaction will be. It'll sound an awful like snoring. Not exactly the most motivated bunch in that particular FSDO, and if it's not UPS they don't even care.
 

Boris Badenov

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The SDF/LOU FSDO is the only one I've had the dubious pleasure of uhm "working closely with", so I can't compare. That said, if it's anything like it was 10 years ago, they are big on coming out once in a blue moon, red tagging everything on the ramp, then disappearing in a puff of sulpher. Not so big on, well, anything else.
 

wlacy

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100 1/2 there ya go again armchair QB-ing....much like you did in June after the CASW accident. Get ahold of yourself
 

Nolife

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...then disappearing in a puff of sulpher
Awesome image, sad thread. Also a forecast for ice constitutes known ice. Lots of dirt-bag operators out there tell there guys that you need a pirep for known ice and if no pirep no ice; so go. Not so under the eyes of the judge advocate or common sense.

Sad for the young guy and family.
 

TheInsider

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20-something pilot killed in an E-36.

Looks like multiple legs between MDW/LOU over recent days.

Several small potato outfits and a sub-par broker running a couple of cherokee 6's over the last couple of years have been jockiing for this route.

Looks like an aircraft without de-ice equipment flying through Forecast[Multiple Airmets] and Known Ice [multiple PIREPs] early in the morning.

Some tool was kind enough to post pictures of the wreck on the Flight Aware Registration info within hours of the crash. What an A$$WHOLE!

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N7472N

RIP kid.
100-1/2
Is it really any better providing a link to the picture?
 

100-1/2

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NTSB Identification: DEN08FA114
Accident occurred Tuesday, June 24, 2008 in Linwood, KS
Aircraft: Aero Commander 500S, registration: N411JT
Injuries: 2 Fatal.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On June 24, 2008, at 1020 central daylight time, an Aero Commander 500S, N411JT, registered to and operated by Central Airlines and doing business as Central Air Southwest, was destroyed when the it impacted terrain following a dual engine loss of power while maneuvering near Linwood, Kansas. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed at the time of the accident. The training flight was being conducted under the provisions of Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Part 91 without a flight plan. The two commercial pilots on board the airplane, the company's chief pilot and a pilot-in-training, were fatally injured. The local flight originated at 0927 from Charles B. Wheeler Downtown Airport (MKC), Kansas City, Missouri.

According to surveyors who were parked on a road adjacent to the accident site, they observed the airplane approaching at a low altitude. They said both engines were running, but then the engines began to sputter and "everything went silent." The airplane then nosed down and impacted an open field.

Downloaded GPS (Global Positioning System) data indicates the airplane took off and flew over to Topeka, Kansas, before doing a touch-and-go landing at Lawrence, Kansas. The airplane then proceeded to a practice area where it performed a steep turn to the left, followed by a steep turn to the right. The airplane's altitude was already low and its airspeed decreased considerably before data stopped recording. The airplane impacted the ground in a 53-degree nose down attitude. The landing gear was down and the flaps were at the approach setting.

wlacy-

Thanks for the critique. BTW, "looks like..." is a far cry from judgmental declaration which is oft discharged among these threads and a participation I have refrained. It isn't about being "right" it is about being "safe". The early reports which drew my concern and plea in the June post were then and now echoed above... "low, slow, no Outs behind and no Outs below and a CP "who really gave a lot of guys a [go] at their first flying job..." You still don't get it; two less fathers, husbands and sons, one less aircraft and one more crater in the world. Why? Because a ticket on Great lakes and a seat at flight safety was too, expensive to teach the kind of things the CP was known for pushing?

I fired a MEI decades ago for simulating an engine loss just after lift off by shutting the fuel selector off. More than a year later, that same Joe had a VMC roll-over with a student while executing a Missed Approach or a go-around. I never bothered with the NTSB report or cared to know what a postmortem from the professional mmqb's said. I knew all I needed or wanted to know. Who is right? Who is alive? It's all relative, but I'll take door #2 every day of the week and twice on Sunday. There are times and places for injecting "realism" into a training exercise. Vsse is published and recommended for a reason and we don't bomb around looking for the "worst" ice we can find in a Caravan for "realism". We do that sh!t in the sim where we can control the environment and the outcome and talke about it over a 12pack of longnecks at the candlewood later.

Insider-
My bad. 1,000 Apologies to any others' offense. Your viewpoint is well noted. My alarm and disgust was for the rather ill haste with which someone misappropriated the intentions of Flightaware to cast a more lifelike connection to an aircraft registration rather than the carnage that was implied through a folio of portraits. A subtle intention was, too, relay the appearance of evidence and indications of contributing factors such as the frozen precipitation in the earliest photos and the absence of de-icing equipment installed. However, MegaDitto, to you on the quote?

100-1/2
 

wlacy

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“There are some people that if they [100 1/2] don't know, you can't tell them [100 1/2].”

---Louis Armstrong
 

BoilerUP

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There was LOTS of ice in them clouds around The Ville when I landed about 8 hours before this accident...
 

wlacy

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The 18th was just a bad night in general:

myself, tsfzra @ mkc
boiler, same @ "the ville"
bonanza wreck @ lou
cirrus sr22's flying around in conditions the airplane wasn't certified for
 

Corporatejoe

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Is this a fact regarding the insurance.

100-1/2, I was a close friend of the pilot in the bonanza accident, I am inquiring about the insurance for his wife. Do you know for a fact that they had this insurance or are you assuming, because if so they seem to be skating around any obligation. How do you know that they were operating two aircraft with only one on the certificate. Let me know asap, I am going to help with any legal options she may have.
 

Corporatejoe

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A couple hundred miles?

As a well traveled pilot, I know that ice is very localized. I have no doubt you encountered heavy ice but that was two days prior and over 200 miles away. He was my college roommate and a very close friend. I have been in touch with his wife and the NTSB, they have ruled ice out and are focused on the recently overhauled engine! So please lets not jump to any conclusions making this very talented pilot look like a chump.
 

100-1/2

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Any Certificated Air Carrier is required to have Economic Authority for interstate or intrastate operations. To get Economic Authority you must place on file a current insurance certificate listing liability coverages (minimum) $75k/seat installed/listed in the TCDS for the aircraft receiving Economic Authority.

Even though (as I later learned) the CP may have had ownership interest in the airplane and economic authority may not have yet been obtained for the BE36 Ops, the survivors/estate may file a claim against the underwriter if the pilot was current and qualified in other aircraft with economic authority.

With the worst shenanigans (personally experienced) with the owner/operator of the certificate capping on the mediocre FSDO, they would have been prevented from issuing an Air Carrier Certificate without the economic authority and the economic authority could not be obtained /kept without a certificate of insurance from the policy underwriter verifying the adequate coverages.

Check your pm's on the other info you seek.

100-1/2
 

icefr8dawg

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this crap happened up in the aby-buf route back in early 2000's. It was interesting to see spanking brand new boots and working prop de-ice on the 310's up there following the fatal crash in a field with full fire, hospital, death. Such a dam shame to see the totally visable learning curve the small mom and pop charter outfits go through when winter comes. At the cost of a pilot soul who needed a job so bad in a terrible employment market.
 

wlacy

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100 1/2 you just CANNOT seem to wrap your mind around the sensitive issues surrounding a crash such as the one in June as well as this one.... corporate joe is politely explaining to your pea-sized brain that you're crass and insensitive discussions of this accident are way out of line... my chief pilot would tell you to "get your head outta your bobo"
 

100-1/2

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wlacy-

That's odd. My overly college educated interpretation of what he has printed, it appears to be a plea for assistance because the survivors are getting the initial stiff-arm from the underwriters and building a case for potentially seeking legal representation? Oh Yeah, I am OVERREADING?!? Obviously you are a fine specimen and product from the Chicago School System compared to my "Pea-sized Brain". No, wait, ERAU? Was it?

But, geewizzzz mister, those are some awfully big knobs and buttons in your airplane! OOOOOH, and sooooo many! how do you keep track of it all and what each one does? And exactly what does the SP after N172 on the tail mean anyway? Must be Super Phast? huh? When I grow up, I wanna be just like you, leave before dawn and come home after dark 6 days a week partaking of the fine ammenities like TacoBell, Top Ramen! And, on Fridays I'll get to wear blue jeans to work and splurge for the Buffet at KFC!
ON my days off, ill butter up dad for some allowance and pound a couple of cases of Old Milwaukee!

Get over yourself! You are not contributing anything to this thread. You couldn't scratch, pinch or roll that single hair on your left sack muchless comprehend or fathom a glimpse into the death, destruction and loss I have witnessed and experiences I have accumulated in my lifetime.

BTW. My Mommy can beat up your CP and make him cry. And then I would fire him and promote you because you are obviously God's Greatest Contribution to this Earth since Jesus Christ!
NO! WAIT! You should go strait to D.O. FOR SURE!! Without a Doubt any D.O. that would let my Mommy beat the hell out of his CP should be demoted and you are undoubtedly overly qualified to hold the position despite only 6 months total of 135 on the line for Fright Express in the Centurion! I'll get a waiver rubberstamped as our POI is as old as Jesus and surely will find your resemblence!

100-1/2
 

wlacy

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I think we both need to take a look deep down inside. While I'm not an erautool; i am, however, everything else alluded to in that vindictive post of yours. just take a few deep breaths and go to sleep tonight with your mommy knowing that your words mean very little to the families of MB, the kid who went down with him, this kid who crashed the A36 in Louisville, in addition to everyone else who reads your mile-long trail of bullcrap.
 

belchfire

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My condolences to the families...

for you two (lacey/100)

Girls, getting kind of wrapped up around each other aren't you? Care to send video?

hehehehehehe
 
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