Bombardier Large Cabin Demo pilots.

[hawkerjet]

Dinger the headaches come for those of us that manage the aircraft. I believe, but I'm not sure, that the problem of Bombardier support is primarily linked to the Challenger. I don't know about the Learjet. From what I hear the CL 300 is everything it's cracked up to be and more. I don't know of any support issues.
My company is upgrading aircraft and I compared the 604, Falcon 900 and GIV. The IV is by far the heaviest and biggest guzzler of the group and by a significant margin. However, when you take into account the average aircraft is owned for 4 years and stretch out your budget to 4 years, you can start to realize that the extra money for fuel will be recouped by savings in maintenance, insurance and training.
I posed this question earlier concerning my own backyard; Why are there almost 90 Gulfstreams at VNY and only 3 Challenger's. This started my research.

 

[jonjuan]

The IV is by far the heaviest and biggest guzzler of the group and by a significant margin. However, when you take into account the average aircraft is owned for 4 years and stretch out your budget to 4 years, you can start to realize that the extra money for fuel will be recouped by savings in maintenance, insurance and training.
I posed this question earlier concerning my own backyard; Why are there almost 90 Gulfstreams at VNY and only 3 Challenger's. This started my research.

I am not sure I follow your logic. Does the Challenger not come with a warranty? How is it that maintenance, insurance, and mech/pilot training are cheaper for a G-IV? The dispatch reliability of the Challenger is 99.7%. There are 300+ in service. (this is all according to the bombardier website data, so grain of salt, please). With your data of a 90/3 ratio, there must then be thousands of G-IVs flying around. How many have been sold and put into service?

 

[AA717driver]

Having the best warranty in the business won't help you if you're broke and the parts won't be there for a week. It won't help you if you break something different every day of the week.

No tow trucks for bizjets.

I've got to hand it to Gulfstream--when they break, the fix-it airplane shows up or the part is there pretty darned quick. They even hand-carried a card for us from London to Delhi. TC

 

[hawkerjet]

I am not sure I follow your logic. Does the Challenger not come with a warranty? How is it that maintenance, insurance, and mech/pilot training are cheaper for a G-IV? The dispatch reliability of the Challenger is 99.7%. There are 300+ in service. (this is all according to the bombardier website data, so grain of salt, please). With your data of a 90/3 ratio, there must then be thousands of G-IVs flying around. How many have been sold and put into service?

jojuan,
My logic is the following. At the VNY airport there are a lot more Gulfstream aircraft based here than Challenger aircraft. I noted this difference and wondered why.The G IV series started in 1986 with serial number 1000, the first few not having autothrottles. A quick look at controller magazine tells me that a 2002 G IV is serial number 1475, so there are quite a few more than 300. The shear difference at VNY led me to ask various operators about their 604's. This is not scientific, I did this myself. I asked the main problem they had with their 604 and almost all said parts and support. The 604 is a great airplane and only been around since 1996 so it has some more room to grow. My data comes from the VNY airport authority, and to be fair it included GII, GIII, G IV and GV aircraft, but There were only a few Challengers here , one being a 600.
As far as training goes, my company can get an initial G IV type for $24,000 vs $32,000 for the 604.
The insurance cost for the GIV and the 604 can't be verified at this time because I lost the print outs, so let's call that point moot. Maintenance projection for similar aged aircraft is much lower according to our pre buy specialist at Boston research.
One thing I would point out is that you took a ratio of 90/3 from 1 airport and applied it to all. I was pointing out my particular field only and can't speak for the rest.
I would like to state I am not bashing the 604, but in my research for answers I came accross a common complaint and addressed this issue for our companies next aircraft selection, that's all.

 

[Dinger]

These are all valid points. Our 604 is only a 1 1/2 yrs old, thus not a lot of problems. We are not on smart parts, just warranty....so our AOG time (so far 0) is acceptable (seriously). We fly 60+ hours/month. Our ONLY down time has come from tires and an unexpected strike of cloud spark (ma nature). All things considered, it has been a great a/c. The cabin is larger than all others (assuming your folks like "gerth" vs. "length"). Honestly, the only thing I see lacking is the ego of the owner! (I know....ego matters at VNY)

I am not saying it is better than the G, but I have not personally observed the "down time" that Bombardier gets a bad rap for all over this board (I must say, it is mostly by G drivers).

 

[GEXDriver]

Wait until your CL604 breaks (and it will), then come back and tell us what you think of legendary Bombardier support.

 

[Dinger]

okey dokey

 

[FraxJockey]

Hopefully thing will get better. Personally I have done several trips, some picking up mechanics and parts and flying them to the middle of nowhere and some flying parts from one BASS facility to another. Evidently they are getting the message.



Bombardier Parts Express Service Takes Flight Dallas, Texas, February 20, 2007
· Flexjet aircraft fleet available for AOG Parts Express delivery service
· Bombardier investing over $25 million to improve aircraft parts availability
Bombardier today announced the start of its new Parts Express service for Bombardier Learjet, Challenger and Global aircraft operators, leveraging the flexibility of the Flexjet aircraft fleet for Aircraft on Ground (AOG) parts deliveries within the United States. An initiative of Bombardier’s renewed commitment to outstanding customer service, Parts Express is now on duty for customers in need.
“Essentially, we have allocated shares equalling one Learjet 45 super light jet, which gives us the power and flexibility, when required, of the Flexjet fleet to ensure critical AOG situations are addressed as quickly as possible,” said James Hoblyn, Senior Vice-President, Customer Experience, Bombardier Business Aircraft.
The Parts Express service will be a valuable tool in helping to ensure Bombardier aircraft are ready to meet their mission. Parts Express will use its allocated Flexjet hours to dispatch parts and Mobile Repair Parties (MRP) for AOG jets across the U.S. The program is available to Bombardier business aircraft operators whose aircraft are currently under warranty.
“We are focused on doing whatever is required to improve our support to our customers, starting with parts availability,” said Mr. Hoblyn. “We are reviewing our current practices and are implementing key initiatives such as Parts Express, to ensure our customers always receive the best service possible from Bombardier.”
New investment focuses on high demand parts
Bombardier Aircraft Services has also implemented a new parts inventory program, earmarking more than $25 million towards stocking additional quantities of the top 25 high-demand parts for current production Bombardier business jets.
The program targets the entire Bombardier parts distribution network for current production Learjet, Challenger and Global aircraft models. Bombardier’s current parts inventory exceeds 166,000 line items worldwide.
Through its expanding parts distribution network, Bombardier is working to ensure operators obtain competitively priced parts when and where required. The international business aircraft network currently consists of two super warehouses, in Chicago and Frankfurt, and four depots in Montreal, Dubai, Singapore and Sydney. Bombardier also plans to open parts depots in Sao Paulo and Tokyo in 2007.

 

[Dinger]

There you have it.......problem solved.