Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Boeing books a record 800+ orders!!!!!

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

Whale Rider

Unity is Our Strength
Joined
Nov 9, 2004
Posts
864
Wednesday, November 23, 2005
Aerospace Notebook: 800 orders set Boeing record
By JAMES WALLACE
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER
It's official. The men and women who sell commercial jetliners for The Boeing Co. have set a record for most orders ever won in any year by Boeing, Airbus or the late McDonnell Douglas.
With the 42-plane firm order announced Sunday by Emirates Airlines at the Dubai Air Show, Boeing now has 800 gross orders for 2005, or 775 net orders, which includes cancellations.That shatters the previous jetliner order record set by Boeing in 1996, when it won gross orders for 668 jetliners.
Some recent media reports have said Boeing's best year came in 1986, when it won orders for 877 planes. But that number is misleading because it includes planes sold by McDonnell Douglas.
After the 1997 merger, Boeing added its former competitor's order totals to its own for each year starting in 1955 -- the dawn of the jet age. In 1986, McDonnell Douglas won 279 orders, including 209 for its D-9. Boeing had 405 orders in 1986.
In 1996, Boeing won 668 orders to only 44 for McDonnell Douglas. Those 668 orders have stood as a record for any manufacturer of commercial jetliners with 100 or more seats -- until now.
The best year for Airbus was 1998 when it won 556 orders. Airbus should easily beat that total this year but appears unlikely to match Boeing's 2005 total, which is going even higher.
At this week's Dubai Air Show, the always-entertaining John Leahy, Airbus' supersalesman, said Airbus will pull even with Boeing in orders by the end of the year -- it now trails by about 200 planes.
Not likely, John.Still to be decided are three major airline campaigns in which Boeing and Airbus both have a shot -- Qantas, Singapore and Cathay Pacific.

Qantas, whose board could announce a decision Dec. 7, has said it is considering a $16 billion order for up to 100 widebody jets. It has been evaluating the Boeing 777, 787 and 747-8, as well as the Airbus A340, A350, and more A380s.
The Qantas competition is considered too close to call and the airline could end up splitting its order with both manufacturers. It is unclear if Qantas will announce all its orders at once, or have some spill over into 2006.
Singapore Airlines is considering an order for as many as 60 widebody jets and, like Qantas, is evaluating the 777, 787, 747-8 as well as the Airbus A340, A350 and more A380s. Boeing is the front-runner. Singapore Airlines is the biggest 777 operator in the world.
A decision by Singapore could come in December or may be delayed until early 2006.
Cathay Pacific is expected to announce its choice soon for as many as two dozen widebody jets. It is considering the 777 and A340. Although the Hong Kong-based airline has a mixed fleet, those planes mostly have Rolls-Royce engines. This could give Airbus the advantage. The 777-300ER that Boeing hopes to sell Cathay Pacific only comes with a General Electric engine.
Another hard-fought competition that is likely to be decided soon is in Russia, where Aeroflot has said it could order around 22 787s or A350s.
To match Boeing in orders this year, Airbus would probably have to roll the table on Boeing and win all those orders, and then sign contracts before the end of the year so the orders could be counted as firm for 2005.
And Boeing still has more than 60 commitments for the 787 Dreamliner that it is working to turn into firm orders by the end of the year.
Boeing last beat Airbus in orders in 2000. Scott Carson, Boeing's jetliner sales chief who took over that job in late 2004, had vowed early on in 2005 that Boeing would win back the annual order trophy that had found a home with Airbus the past five years.
Regardless of what happens with orders between now and the end of the year, Airbus will deliver more planes than Boeing in 2005, just as it did the past two years and is likely to do in 2006 and 2007.
With Boeing and Airbus both having banner order years, is anything left for 2006?
Boeing has said it expects to have a solid 2006, but has acknowledged orders are likely to be fewer than in 2005.
Some industry analysts are expecting a sharp drop in orders next year. "We believe this represents the end of the order boom and expect 2006 to be much weaker," Merrill Lynch analyst Charles Armitage wrote in a recent report.
 
Not a lot of orders, but AirTran, Alaska, Northwest, Continental, Southwest and UPS ordered a few planes this year, didn't they?
 
Last edited:
Nothing like an American built jet. Even if the parts are from other countries!

Hope my airline puts an order in for those shinny new 787's.
 
That seems like a lot of orders? I can't help but wonder if there isn't a competition between 2 salesmen to win the most orders, the prize being Mrs. Costanzas' water pik :)
 
We have a saying here in Seattle.

IF IT'S NOT BOEING, I'M NOT GOING!!
 
Don't worry guys! Once George W. Bush gets his way and all US Airlines are foreign owned you can go to work for them!

If you move to China or Dubai of course.
 
furloughfodder said:
Don't worry guys! Once George W. Bush gets his way and all US Airlines are foreign owned you can go to work for them!

If you move to China or Dubai of course.

China? Hmm.. um no...
There are tons of crashes or incidents that happen in China each year in the aviation industry. The Gov. doesn't allow the information to get out but the info does leak out becuase of family members on board that died. Chinese companies also aren't known to spend the most amount of money on maintenance or anything like that either. This is just the way they run their companies. They figure if they can save more money, it's more profit. They will do this a lot of times even if it means people's lives are in danger. How do i know this? Well... i was born in the states, but most of my family is Asian.

Want an example? This is how Sars started. A chinese dude at a farm KNEW that his animals died of a disease and still sold the meat to a restaurant. Same with bird flu, the places knew these animals died of disease but still served them anyways to make money.

So be careful.

On another note, this may contribute to the lack of air safety there as well.
The pilots that fly for their airlines dont want to be there for the most part. In China you take a test when you finish school and whatever you score on the test, is what job you HAVE to do for life. If you fail at the job you most likely wont be given another chance at a decent job. The pilots there hate their job and most of them dont even like to fly.

A lot of orders are coming in from that country not only because their industry is growing, but also because 100% of their airlines are state owned. Meaning that they are Gov. funded. So basically buying planes is easy becuase most of them pay cash instead of leasing. The Gov's there also subsidize the price on everything including a lot of exports.
 
So, how do you think the American public is going to feel when the pilots operating into and out of the US (as well as within) are all foreign nationals (mostly from Asia and Pakistan, etc.)???

Never mind...I already know the answer. If it is $2 cheaper to have a 65 year old pilot from China flying them, they will buy the ticket. The American public can give a rip about safety records and pilot experience...as long as the ticket is cheaper on Expedia.com they will buy it. This has been proven the last 5 years over and over again.


Thanks George!
 
furloughfodder said:
So, how do you think the American public is going to feel when the pilots operating into and out of the US (as well as within) are all foreign nationals (mostly from Asia and Pakistan, etc.)???

Never mind...I already know the answer. If it is $2 cheaper to have a 65 year old pilot from China flying them, they will buy the ticket. The American public can give a rip about safety records and pilot experience...as long as the ticket is cheaper on Expedia.com they will buy it. This has been proven the last 5 years over and over again.


Thanks George!

That's if you're talking about all of the recognizable airlines. If the tickets for a chinese airline were only $2 cheaper and the public knew about how many of their planes actually went down, i think they'd think twice. People have no idea what kind of shady practices go on in there. Trust me, A LOT of shady stuff goes on over there at ALL levels. I know somebody that works for a Chinese staterun company in the US. Some of the stuff he tells me that they do for money. Is just unbelieveable. Then the coverup is even more unbelieveable. At least for now, it's best to stay away. A lot of Chinese think flying is dangerous for a reason. Most dont fly unless they have to.
 
Flash said:
That seems like a lot of orders? I can't help but wonder if there isn't a competition between 2 salesmen to win the most orders, the prize being Mrs. Costanzas' water pik :)

Are you clairvoyant? Tonight's "Seinfeld" had George and Lloyd Braun selling computers in Mr. Castanza's garage, the sales incentive being the water pik. "You're not giving away our water pik!"
"Serenity now!"

furloughfodder-you are an angry, neurotic man, speaking of George Costanza. Do you really think the Boeing orders would have been any less with Kerry or Hillary in office? If so, you are delusional and probably need to be removed from seats 0A,B. Now you are angry at the American public for buying the cheapest airline tickets they can find on the internet? Capitalism.
 
Miles,

My post is really referring to what G.W. is doing to American jobs, and in particular, airline jobs. I have no idea how many planes would have been ordered had someone else been in office (I tend to think more, since our relationship with the world would be better in general).

What I am talking about is W's constant effort to outsource jobs and push for foreign ownership of US Airlines. Also, his support of Open Skies allowing foreign airlines to come in and undercut our industry.

If you think Spirit's $9 fares are low, wait till some of these foreign airlines start flying US Domestic flights....and if you thought the pay at JetBlue was bad now, just wait....
 
furloughfodder said:
Miles,

My post is really referring to what G.W. is doing to American jobs, and in particular, airline jobs. I have no idea how many planes would have been ordered had someone else been in office (I tend to think more, since our relationship with the world would be better in general).

What I am talking about is W's constant effort to outsource jobs and push for foreign ownership of US Airlines. Also, his support of Open Skies allowing foreign airlines to come in and undercut our industry.

If you think Spirit's $9 fares are low, wait till some of these foreign airlines start flying US Domestic flights....and if you thought the pay at JetBlue was bad now, just wait....

Well... he does have a point. A foreign pilot earning $3500 in another country may seem like a ton to him. However, $3500 for us in the US a montha nd trying to raise a family is close to nothing. So of course the foreign carriers are going to have much lower rates in that case. GW needs to do something to protect our best interests first, just like any other country would do what's in their own best interest first before doing anything else.
 
Alin10123 said:
Well... he does have a point. A foreign pilot earning $3500 in another country may seem like a ton to him. However, $3500 for us in the US a montha nd trying to raise a family is close to nothing. So of course the foreign carriers are going to have much lower rates in that case. GW needs to do something to protect our best interests first, just like any other country would do what's in their own best interest first before doing anything else.

The fallacy of this argument is that it assumes all foreign pilots make less than U.S. pilots. That is simply not the case. Many foreign pilots make as much, or more than, U.S. pilots. The Cathay, JAL, ANA, BA, Lufthansa, and many more pilots are doing quite well. Labor costs in Europe are very high, as they are in Japan. Even Air India, Jet, and Sahara pilots are fairly well compensated.

It is certainly true that there are third world airlines that pay much less than U.S. carriers, but those aren't the ones you see flying to the USA in any great numbers.

I work for a foreign airline and there are no jobs that I would come back to the States for as they simply don't pay enough to match what I make outside the States.


TP
 
typhoonpilot said:
The fallacy of this argument is that it assumes all foreign pilots make less than U.S. pilots. That is simply not the case. Many foreign pilots make as much, or more than, U.S. pilots. The Cathay, JAL, ANA, BA, Lufthansa, and many more pilots are doing quite well. Labor costs in Europe are very high, as they are in Japan. Even Air India, Jet, and Sahara pilots are fairly well compensated.

It is certainly true that there are third world airlines that pay much less than U.S. carriers, but those aren't the ones you see flying to the USA in any great numbers.

I work for a foreign airline and there are no jobs that I would come back to the States for as they simply don't pay enough to match what I make outside the States.


TP

That may be the case. But what's the keep China's state run airlines from entering the US in the future?
 
Alin10123 said:
That may be the case. But what's the keep China's state run airlines from entering the US in the future?

They already do. China Southern, China Eastern, and Air China all serve the USA. I guess we are talking about cabotage though, and that is a legitimate concern. To play devil's advocate, there are advantages to U.S. carriers as well.

A well run U.S. airline ( I know that is an oxymoron :laugh: ) would be able to take advantages of some of the better international routes. My present company only has two flights per day to the USA and makes just shy of $1 billion in profit per year. That is with well compensated pilots. Look at what Air Chance/KLM just reported, they have relatively high employee costs.

If I was a U.S. airline manager I would be salivating at the possibilities for expansion and increased revenue generating potential from a free market place. I would also be concerned about low cost competition, but I truly think a well run company could benefit greatly from a more open marketplace.


TP
 

Latest resources

Back
Top