Boeing books a record 800+ orders!!!!!

[737 Pylt]

Yes, but three of the foreign carriers mentioned hire American pilots.


TP

True dat!
737

 

[Alin10123]

Don't worry guys! Once George W. Bush gets his way and all US Airlines are foreign owned you can go to work for them!

If you move to China or Dubai of course.

China? Hmm.. um no...
There are tons of crashes or incidents that happen in China each year in the aviation industry. The Gov. doesn't allow the information to get out but the info does leak out becuase of family members on board that died. Chinese companies also aren't known to spend the most amount of money on maintenance or anything like that either. This is just the way they run their companies. They figure if they can save more money, it's more profit. They will do this a lot of times even if it means people's lives are in danger. How do i know this? Well... i was born in the states, but most of my family is Asian.

Want an example? This is how Sars started. A chinese dude at a farm KNEW that his animals died of a disease and still sold the meat to a restaurant. Same with bird flu, the places knew these animals died of disease but still served them anyways to make money.

So be careful.

On another note, this may contribute to the lack of air safety there as well.
The pilots that fly for their airlines dont want to be there for the most part. In China you take a test when you finish school and whatever you score on the test, is what job you HAVE to do for life. If you fail at the job you most likely wont be given another chance at a decent job. The pilots there hate their job and most of them dont even like to fly.

A lot of orders are coming in from that country not only because their industry is growing, but also because 100% of their airlines are state owned. Meaning that they are Gov. funded. So basically buying planes is easy becuase most of them pay cash instead of leasing. The Gov's there also subsidize the price on everything including a lot of exports.

 

[furloughfodder]

So, how do you think the American public is going to feel when the pilots operating into and out of the US (as well as within) are all foreign nationals (mostly from Asia and Pakistan, etc.)???

Never mind...I already know the answer. If it is $2 cheaper to have a 65 year old pilot from China flying them, they will buy the ticket. The American public can give a rip about safety records and pilot experience...as long as the ticket is cheaper on Expedia.com they will buy it. This has been proven the last 5 years over and over again.


Thanks George!

 

[Alin10123]

So, how do you think the American public is going to feel when the pilots operating into and out of the US (as well as within) are all foreign nationals (mostly from Asia and Pakistan, etc.)???

Never mind...I already know the answer. If it is $2 cheaper to have a 65 year old pilot from China flying them, they will buy the ticket. The American public can give a rip about safety records and pilot experience...as long as the ticket is cheaper on Expedia.com they will buy it. This has been proven the last 5 years over and over again.


Thanks George!

That's if you're talking about all of the recognizable airlines. If the tickets for a chinese airline were only $2 cheaper and the public knew about how many of their planes actually went down, i think they'd think twice. People have no idea what kind of shady practices go on in there. Trust me, A LOT of shady stuff goes on over there at ALL levels. I know somebody that works for a Chinese staterun company in the US. Some of the stuff he tells me that they do for money. Is just unbelieveable. Then the coverup is even more unbelieveable. At least for now, it's best to stay away. A lot of Chinese think flying is dangerous for a reason. Most dont fly unless they have to.

 

[miles otoole]

That seems like a lot of orders? I can't help but wonder if there isn't a competition between 2 salesmen to win the most orders, the prize being Mrs. Costanzas' water pik

Are you clairvoyant? Tonight's "Seinfeld" had George and Lloyd Braun selling computers in Mr. Castanza's garage, the sales incentive being the water pik. "You're not giving away our water pik!"
"Serenity now!"

furloughfodder-you are an angry, neurotic man, speaking of George Costanza. Do you really think the Boeing orders would have been any less with Kerry or Hillary in office? If so, you are delusional and probably need to be removed from seats 0A,B. Now you are angry at the American public for buying the cheapest airline tickets they can find on the internet? Capitalism.

 

[furloughfodder]

Miles,

My post is really referring to what G.W. is doing to American jobs, and in particular, airline jobs. I have no idea how many planes would have been ordered had someone else been in office (I tend to think more, since our relationship with the world would be better in general).

What I am talking about is W's constant effort to outsource jobs and push for foreign ownership of US Airlines. Also, his support of Open Skies allowing foreign airlines to come in and undercut our industry.

If you think Spirit's $9 fares are low, wait till some of these foreign airlines start flying US Domestic flights....and if you thought the pay at JetBlue was bad now, just wait....

 

[Alin10123]

Miles,

My post is really referring to what G.W. is doing to American jobs, and in particular, airline jobs. I have no idea how many planes would have been ordered had someone else been in office (I tend to think more, since our relationship with the world would be better in general).

What I am talking about is W's constant effort to outsource jobs and push for foreign ownership of US Airlines. Also, his support of Open Skies allowing foreign airlines to come in and undercut our industry.

If you think Spirit's $9 fares are low, wait till some of these foreign airlines start flying US Domestic flights....and if you thought the pay at JetBlue was bad now, just wait....

Well... he does have a point. A foreign pilot earning $3500 in another country may seem like a ton to him. However, $3500 for us in the US a montha nd trying to raise a family is close to nothing. So of course the foreign carriers are going to have much lower rates in that case. GW needs to do something to protect our best interests first, just like any other country would do what's in their own best interest first before doing anything else.

 

[typhoonpilot]

Well... he does have a point. A foreign pilot earning $3500 in another country may seem like a ton to him. However, $3500 for us in the US a montha nd trying to raise a family is close to nothing. So of course the foreign carriers are going to have much lower rates in that case. GW needs to do something to protect our best interests first, just like any other country would do what's in their own best interest first before doing anything else.

The fallacy of this argument is that it assumes all foreign pilots make less than U.S. pilots. That is simply not the case. Many foreign pilots make as much, or more than, U.S. pilots. The Cathay, JAL, ANA, BA, Lufthansa, and many more pilots are doing quite well. Labor costs in Europe are very high, as they are in Japan. Even Air India, Jet, and Sahara pilots are fairly well compensated.

It is certainly true that there are third world airlines that pay much less than U.S. carriers, but those aren't the ones you see flying to the USA in any great numbers.

I work for a foreign airline and there are no jobs that I would come back to the States for as they simply don't pay enough to match what I make outside the States.


TP

 

[Alin10123]

The fallacy of this argument is that it assumes all foreign pilots make less than U.S. pilots. That is simply not the case. Many foreign pilots make as much, or more than, U.S. pilots. The Cathay, JAL, ANA, BA, Lufthansa, and many more pilots are doing quite well. Labor costs in Europe are very high, as they are in Japan. Even Air India, Jet, and Sahara pilots are fairly well compensated.

It is certainly true that there are third world airlines that pay much less than U.S. carriers, but those aren't the ones you see flying to the USA in any great numbers.

I work for a foreign airline and there are no jobs that I would come back to the States for as they simply don't pay enough to match what I make outside the States.


TP

That may be the case. But what's the keep China's state run airlines from entering the US in the future?

 

[typhoonpilot]

That may be the case. But what's the keep China's state run airlines from entering the US in the future?

They already do. China Southern, China Eastern, and Air China all serve the USA. I guess we are talking about cabotage though, and that is a legitimate concern. To play devil's advocate, there are advantages to U.S. carriers as well.

A well run U.S. airline ( I know that is an oxymoron :laugh: ) would be able to take advantages of some of the better international routes. My present company only has two flights per day to the USA and makes just shy of $1 billion in profit per year. That is with well compensated pilots. Look at what Air Chance/KLM just reported, they have relatively high employee costs.

If I was a U.S. airline manager I would be salivating at the possibilities for expansion and increased revenue generating potential from a free market place. I would also be concerned about low cost competition, but I truly think a well run company could benefit greatly from a more open marketplace.


TP