Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Blue/Alaska/Hawaiian merger

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

$$$4nothin

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2004
Posts
815
With the latest merger between US Airways and AMR, American Airlines Group (NASDAQ: AAL ) is almost certainly the last of the North American airline megamergers. But there are some smaller carriers that have merger possibilities, and the futures of these carriers affect those of big and small airlines alike.

Growing through Hawaii
Unless you live in Hawaii, on the West Coast, or in a major city, there's a good chance you've never heard of Hawaiian Airlines, owned by Hawaiian Holdings (NASDAQ: HA ) . But while major carriers are trying to restrict capacity growth, Hawaiian is growing into new markets.

With the vast majority of its revenue coming from travel between the west coast of the United States and Hawaii, Hawaiian Airlines is seeking to diversify and expand. Ordering a new set of jets with improved fuel efficiency and range, Hawaiian is moving into the Pacific markets with flights to Australia, New Zealand, China, and Japan. With potential for additional growth in emerging Asian markets, Hawaiian Airlines is both a U.S. tourism investment and an emerging markets investment.

Hawaiian Airlines is not currently a member of any of the three major airline alliances preferring to form partnerships with individual carriers instead. This means that an airline acquiring Hawaiian would gain a new alliance member regardless of which alliance the acquiring airline is a member of. In addition, much of Hawaiian's network would be new additions to that of a major airline. This lack of overlap would allow an acquiring carrier to more efficiently obtain a larger network while making the antitrust process less difficult.

Northeast favorite
Since its founding in 1998, JetBlue Airways (NASDAQ: JBLU ) has held valuable real estate at major airports while offering a flying experience unique from major carriers. But with slots at major airports tightly held, JetBlue has found limited expansion opportunities in the northeast.

The talk of a JetBlue merger rose to prominence shortly after the Department of Justice filed its lawsuit to block the US Airways/AMR merger in August of this year. A merger between US Airways and JetBlue was occasionally discussed among analysts as an alternative if the US Airways/AMR merger was unsuccessful.

But a settlement was reached in the US Airways/AMR merger and the process of building the world's largest airline was given the go ahead. JetBlue actually turned out to be a big winner from the settlement as the DOJ got the merging airlines to divest some highly valued slots to discount airlines such as Southwest Airlines and JetBlue.

Although JetBlue is a smaller carrier and the acquisition of it would be a significantly smaller merger than the US Airways/AMR merger, a JetBlue acquisition would be expected to come under strict antitrust scrutiny. One of the ways the DOJ has sought to maintain competition after the US Airways/AMR merger is by having American Airlines Group give up some slots to carriers like JetBlue. If the DOJ then allowed a major carrier to acquire JetBlue, it would defeat the whole purpose of the slot divestments.

Most likely a merger involving JetBlue would not involve American Airlines, United Continental, or Delta Air Lines. Instead, if such a merger were to happen, a smaller airline would have to merger with JetBlue.

The DOJ may allow a merger between JetBlue and Alaska Airlines, a subsidiary of Alaska Air Group (NYSE: ALK ) , as such a merger would have limited overlap and would provide a stronger airline to compete with the largest carriers. The combined network of JetBlue and Alaska Airlines would have a much greater nationwide presence combining JetBlue's strong east coast network with Alaska's strong west coast network. Challenges would remain in integrating smaller airlines that have a distinctive brand image developed over time, but if the two carriers did see an advantage in combining, they could always choose to keep two brand names but operate as one airline.

End of mergers?
The airline industry has just undergone the greatest wave of consolidation in its history. Over the next few years, we will see the full integration of American Airlines Group, the finishing touches on the United Continental merger, and the responses by all airlines to the new industry environment.

While the largest airline mergers look to be at an end, mergers and acquisitions of smaller airlines could still happen under the right conditions. Investors should not pick an airline purely because of merger potential but smaller merger possibilities are something to keep in mind now that the largest mergers are finished.

Even More Premium Stock Picks
Dividend stocks can make you rich. It's as simple as that. While they don't garner the notoriety of high-flying growth stocks, they're also less likely to crash and burn. And over the long term, the compounding effect of the quarterly payouts, as well as their growth, adds up faster than most investors imagine. With this in mind, our analysts sat down to identify the absolute best of the best when it comes to rock-solid dividend stocks, drawing up a list in this free report of nine that fit the bill. To discover the identities of these companies before the rest of the market catches on, you can download this valuable free report by simply clicking here now.


I see a Blue/Hawaiian/Alaska merger in the future.

5000 pilot group. 400 airframes. 100 on order. Route structure that covers everything except Europe. 100-350 seat lift. Seems like a great merger to me.
 
Like I said before, VX would need to be a part of this. A 4-way merger of the above carriers could be something to at least compete with legacies/southwest. I think a non-alliance mega carrier would do well and attract a lot of international partners.

But it will take some serious pressure from investors/wall street to make this happen.
 
And for poops and giggles:

Alaska (+Horizon), jetblue, Virgin America, Hawaiian

Combined fleet: (in service/orders/options)
A330- 14+7+5
A350- 0+6+6
B767- 14
A319/320/321- 186+71
A320/321NEO- 0+106+9
B737- 133+30
B737MAX- 0+37
E190- 60+21
B717- 18
ATR42- 3
Q400- 48

Total fleet 476+278+11

Hubs: BOS, JFK, FLL, MCO, LAX, SFO, PDX, SEA, ANC, HNL

Pilot count: 5801
 
It's going to be called " Our Management is Too Dumb to do Something This Smart" Airways.

Sorry but this crap bothers me.
Big words from a 190 pilot.
I do not think the top guys at this place are dumb at all.
The middle group is up for debate.
If the money is there and it's good for wall st it will be done.
 
Relative seniority? Doh? Career expectations? Horizon (spoogeinpants) flow through?

Who's got the most retirements?

I'm sure we'd go with the DR... ALPA would cap our pay and make us take concessions.

So many questions to be answered by out fi managment pilots! LoL
 
Sorry but this crap bothers me.
Big words from a 190 pilot.
I do not think the top guys at this place are dumb at all.
The middle group is up for debate.
If the money is there and it's good for wall st it will be done.

With the monolith carriers, we may need each other (JB and ALK) to be relevant and strong enough. If it doesn't happen soon with DL throwing capacity at both of us, you may not think our management is so smart for long....

How has our profitability been compared to our peers? Do you not think these guys fumble a great many things? By the way, the top guys get to pick, lead and fire the middle guys. If there is failures at the middle, it is ultimately because the top isn't doing their jobs sufficiently. I'm not all negative, and you know that.

We will all know the future after it happens. Good luck to us all.
 
With the monolith carriers, we may need each other (JB and ALK) to be relevant and strong enough. If it doesn't happen soon with DL throwing capacity at both of us, you may not think our management is so smart for long....

How has our profitability been compared to our peers? Do you not think these guys fumble a great many things? By the way, the top guys get to pick, lead and fire the middle guys. If there is failures at the middle, it is ultimately because the top isn't doing their jobs sufficiently. I'm not all negative, and you know that.

We will all know the future after it happens. Good luck to us all.[/Q

I know you are not all negative, I just think many guys throw around management is dumb here to fast.
 
With the monolith carriers, we may need each other (JB and ALK) to be relevant and strong enough. If it doesn't happen soon with DL throwing capacity at both of us, you may not think our management is so smart for long....

How has our profitability been compared to our peers? Do you not think these guys fumble a great many things? By the way, the top guys get to pick, lead and fire the middle guys. If there is failures at the middle, it is ultimately because the top isn't doing their jobs sufficiently. I'm not all negative, and you know that.

We will all know the future after it happens. Good luck to us all.[/Q

I know you are not all negative, I just think many guys throw around management is dumb here to fast.

Frankly I hope it happens. I think we would both be much stronger. I also think it is entirely possible and almost feel like it is already in the works right now.
 
Since 2006: delta was a done deal

AA was a done deal
Delta was a done deal again
SWA was a done deal
AA was a done deal again then delta again
We were going to buy va then frontier then we didn't ...

The only thing that's for sure is you won't know until you read it in the USA today on a layover.
 
Since 2006: delta was a done deal

AA was a done deal
Delta was a done deal again
SWA was a done deal
AA was a done deal again then delta again
We were going to buy va then frontier then we didn't ...

The only thing that's for sure is you won't know until you read it in the USA today on a layover.

Actually I never believed any of those. That was the bluepilots.com, the sky is falling crowd.

So no, none of that stuff was a "done deal".
 
CEO Anderson has said that Seattle will be the Atlanta of the west coast. Northwest and Delta helped build up Alaska over the years by code sharing, with Alaska using their financial resources. Now Delta is pushing into Alaska markets affecting their bottom line.

Would not surprise me if Delta walks in after a while and offers the board a deal they couldn't refuse.
 
CEO Anderson has said that Seattle will be the Atlanta of the west coast. Northwest and Delta helped build up Alaska over the years by code sharing, with Alaska using their financial resources. Now Delta is pushing into Alaska markets affecting their bottom line.

Would not surprise me if Delta walks in after a while and offers the board a deal they couldn't refuse.

Wouldn't it be hard to get DOJ approval after DL dumps a ton of capacity on AS routes like they are doing now?

I'm thinking Anderson already approached them with his best offer, but AS said no, so DL will now just create their own SEA hub and chip away at AS's profitability. Someday AS will decide they need to merge with someone, but I don't think it will be DL. Blood has already been shed between these two carriers.
 
I'm curious why no one seems to bring up Frontier. Too be sure, my take is most merger rumors by pilots are pipe dreams. I seriously doubt Hawaiian has as much worth in a merged carrier as it does as a stand alone carrier, but........if you want to dream, Virgin, Frontier and JetBlue seem to be the best match for Hawaiian. Four Airbus fleets with a rep for good service that have a large presence in the east, west and central US feeding an international hub in Hawaii that has lots of Asian potential.
Any future growth to Europe or South America could be done with A350's with plenty of feed. Hawaiian has an inside track on on both the new NEO's and A350's.
 
Frontier was just bought by a fund that formerly owned Spirit... Or something like that. ( my Frontier airlines knowledge is lacking)

I think a general consensus is Frontier and Spirit getting together somehow.....

But I do agree a HA, JB, VA 3some may be pretty enticing.... Not sure about VA, but JB seems like it would fit in well with some of the destinations HA does on the West Coast and NYC...
 
I'm curious why no one seems to bring up Frontier. Too be sure, my take is most merger rumors by pilots are pipe dreams. I seriously doubt Hawaiian has as much worth in a merged carrier as it does as a stand alone carrier, but........if you want to dream, Virgin, Frontier and JetBlue seem to be the best match for Hawaiian. Four Airbus fleets with a rep for good service that have a large presence in the east, west and central US feeding an international hub in Hawaii that has lots of Asian potential.
Any future growth to Europe or South America could be done with A350's with plenty of feed. Hawaiian has an inside track on on both the new NEO's and A350's.

Get back to me in a year regarding F9's reputation. F9 is going to become a Spirit clone. They will be making buckets of cash, but you won't be mentioning them in the same sentence as B6 or VX. The only thing they will have in common is an Airbus fleet.

Not too sure what you mean about an 'inside track' on the NEOs. Spirit will be flying NEOs before Hawaiian. I believe you guys are the launch customer for the A350?
 
Last edited:
I'm curious why no one seems to bring up Frontier. Too be sure, my take is most merger rumors by pilots are pipe dreams. I seriously doubt Hawaiian has as much worth in a merged carrier as it does as a stand alone carrier, but........if you want to dream, Virgin, Frontier and JetBlue seem to be the best match for Hawaiian. Four Airbus fleets with a rep for good service that have a large presence in the east, west and central US feeding an international hub in Hawaii that has lots of Asian potential.
Any future growth to Europe or South America could be done with A350's with plenty of feed. Hawaiian has an inside track on on both the new NEO's and A350's.

Dan, would you say the majority of HA pax are mostly leisure US travelers and O&D Asian business/leisure travelers? Do many people book itineraries between US and Asia using HNL as a connect hub?
 
Wouldn't it be hard to get DOJ approval after DL dumps a ton of capacity on AS routes like they are doing now?

I'm thinking Anderson already approached them with his best offer, but AS said no, so DL will now just create their own SEA hub and chip away at AS's profitability. Someday AS will decide they need to merge with someone, but I don't think it will be DL. Blood has already been shed between these two carriers.

You are correct. A merger MIGHT be allowed if there wasn't much overlap of routes, but lately both airlines have been adding routes on top of the other carrier. That doesn't help at all. The govt likes competition for the consumer, and you can't just dump routes to get it approved. It might have been more likely before, but it's looking less likely each time they add new routes to compete.


Bye Bye----General Lee
 
Dan, would you say the majority of HA pax are mostly leisure US travelers and O&D Asian business/leisure travelers? Do many people book itineraries between US and Asia using HNL as a connect hub?

We primarily fly people to Hawaii going on a Hawaii vacation (and people from Hawaii going somewhere, LAS being the leader there), it is one of the main reasons that makes Hawaiian a fairly week merger contender. People like to start their Hawaiian vacation on Hawaiian Air, that would be lost in any merger. We are growing the Asia to west coast market though, China is seen as a place that will evolve.
 
We primarily fly people to Hawaii going on a Hawaii vacation (and people from Hawaii going somewhere, LAS being the leader there), it is one of the main reasons that makes Hawaiian a fairly week merger contender. People like to start their Hawaiian vacation on Hawaiian Air, that would be lost in any merger. We are growing the Asia to west coast market though, China is seen as a place that will evolve.

I agree with our passenger travel profiles, although keeping the "Hawaiian" name on the side of the airplane (and everything else) would be very easy...

"Hawaiian Airlines operated by ......."

History has shown passengers really don't care about who it is, only the cheapest ticket... And for those remaining who do care about starting their Hawaiian vacation on Hawaiian Airlines, they won't necessarily care about who the actual owners of the company are...

I've learned through a recent furlough that anything is always possible. Appearances (such as the Hawaiian brand feeding Hawaii) take a distant second seat, and everything comes down to money.. I don't doubt for a second our newest board member is in it for one thing.... If the right deal comes along I am pretty positive what his vote would be...


I don't want to see it happen at all, but I've got a suspicion that something will eventually happen. I'm in a wait and see period...

BTW, besides some of the other airlines showing strong financials, why did HA stock jump nearly 7% this morning? I've tried finding any news on it or reasons why but came up with nothing....
 
I agree with our passenger travel profiles, although keeping the "Hawaiian" name on the side of the airplane (and everything else) would be very easy...

"Hawaiian Airlines operated by ......."

History has shown passengers really don't care about who it is, only the cheapest ticket... And for those remaining who do care about starting their Hawaiian vacation on Hawaiian Airlines, they won't necessarily care about who the actual owners of the company are...

I've learned through a recent furlough that anything is always possible. Appearances (such as the Hawaiian brand feeding Hawaii) take a distant second seat, and everything comes down to money.. I don't doubt for a second our newest board member is in it for one thing.... If the right deal comes along I am pretty positive what his vote would be...


I don't want to see it happen at all, but I've got a suspicion that something will eventually happen. I'm in a wait and see period...

BTW, besides some of the other airlines showing strong financials, why did HA stock jump nearly 7% this morning? I've tried finding any news on it or reasons why but came up with nothing....

Lots of airlines jumped this morning on the Delta December traffic report

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/airline-stocks-rise-delta-revenue-190159174.html

Airline stocks rose Friday, led higher by Delta Air Lines after it reported better-than-expected December revenue.

Delta also said its fuel price for the month was cheaper than it had forecast, by 3 cents per gallon.

After the announcement by Delta, S&P Capital IQ raised its rating on Delta to "Strong Buy" from "Buy," raised its estimates for 2013 and 2014 profits, and raised its price target for Delta to $40, from $30. Analyst Jim Corridore wrote that he thinks Delta is likely to continue to be able to take in more per-seat revenue than other airlines.

In afternoon trading, Delta Air Lines Inc. was up $1.45, or 5.5 percent, to $29.15.

United Continental Holdings Inc. rose $1.93, or 4.8 percent, to $39.66. American Airlines Group Inc., which now also includes US Airways, rose $1.24, or 4.9 percent, to $26.60. Southwest Airlines Co. rose 43 cents, or 2.3 percent, to $19.31.

Smaller airlines were also higher. JetBlue Airways Corp. rose 45 cents, or 5.3 percent, to $9.06, and Alaska Air Group Inc. rose $1.56, or 2.2 percent, to $74.74. Spirit Airlines Inc. was up $1.59, or 3.2 percent, to $47.24.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom