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Bloomberg says LCC and AMR

Turtle21

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And it's been a land of milk and honey ever since.:rolleyes:

Both USAPA and the APA are dysfunctional. The APA's been unable to effectively negotiate in Section six and had to come to ALPA and ask to use ALPA's professional negotiators and E&FA specialist. I appreciate the political courage that took, it was a smart move and an essential move. USAPA has just not performed at all.

So? Not one member has paid a single dues penny to those ALPA bstards.:D
 

Flybywire44

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Attrition would be so agressive it wouldn't really matter. The numbers are the numbers- retirements far outpacing that of any other airline, in a short span. Depending on how much the combined airline cut capacity, both AWA and USAir of old would get what they wanted- the pay and QOL each seeks. It's a moot point- everybody would be arguing just to argue.

JumpersAway is dead on. A LLC merger with AMR would bring both East to West pilots together in a extremely positive way. Collectively both groups would become so senior that the past would not matter any more. The East pilots would feel satisfaction from having held on to their seniority leading up to the merger with AMR.
 

shon7

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and what is to say that the merged entity will not use the seniority according to the Nic award.
 

ackattacker

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hah!
and what is to say that the merged entity will not use the seniority according to the Nic award.

Theoretically in an LCC/AA merger, the method of integration used between East/West becomes far less important than the method used to integrate LCC and AA. Essentially they can use the Nic and it is less damaging to the east, or use DOH and it is less damaging to the west. The effect is diluted, so if the contract makes sense from other perspectives you are far more likely to get all parties to agree Nic or no Nic.
 

fam62c

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The combined companies would have massive employee retirements and the opportunity to bring in a lot of new-hires at low, post bankruptcy labor rates. With the exception of the fleet (too many types) some of the potential efficiencies could be very good. Putting the labor piece together could be tough, there's no way this would be a smooth merger unless the labor pieces could be done before the trigger gets pulled while AMR is still in bankruptcy. If they keep the best and shed the rest this could be a workable combination, AMR has much better hubs. I think that LCC will have a tough time going it alone in a world of giant airlines, they need to do this.
 

Flyby1206

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I bet Parker will make a run for AA, but I dont think it will happen. AMR has $4bil cash to fund their BK proceedings, and there is a good chance they wont need DIP financing. If AMR can run through BK in 18months then they should be able to avoid a hostile takeover bid from LCC
 
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ALGFLYR

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and what is to say that the merged entity will not use the seniority according to the Nic award.

The short answer is that the Nic is not an official seniority list. In order to become official, it would have to be ratified in a contract between the East/West pilots (now one under USAPA) and US Airways management.
If negotiations occurred with American and their list, those conditions are not covered in LOA 96, thus the trigger to make the Nic official, would never occur... How could we expect to use an unofficial list?
 

TWA Dude

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How could we expect to use an unofficial list?

If Judge Silver tells the company they're liable for USAPA's DFR violation there won't be any list other than the Nic. Lee $eham's gone. Time to find some better arguments.
 

Dornier 335

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Food for thought ...

source

The AMR Bankruptcy -
So Many Things We Didn't Know About The Airline Business
It's been a bonanza for creative writers and Walter-Mitty-esque "financial analysts" working on the fringes of reality. The AMR C-11 filing, that is.
The past week has been a hoot, reading all the "expert" prognostications on the causes, outcomes, and fallout from the AMR bankruptcy... Some of the great insights we've found at various media outlets:
"... Now that the airline is in bankruptcy, it is likely to cut back on schedules and the number of seats on various flights, to save money. That will make even fewer seats available for purchase – either with dollars or with points....
Really? Where are the data to support the projection that the airline will cut back on "various flights" to "save money" as a direct result of the Chapter 11 filing? The direct cause of the decision to file was high debt load and the challenges of a costly pension program. How will cutting back on flying fix that?
No matter, it was in the press, so it must be accurate.
Or, from the LA Times...
...The 777 jets will include lie-flat seats in first- and business-class sections, mood lighting and a walk-up bar stocked with snacks and drinks, the airline said. Throughout the plane, passengers will have access to an entertainment system with 120 movies, more than 150 TV programs and 350 audio channels.... American ordered the narrow-body planes in July to replace the airline's MD-80s, most of which had been built from 1979 to 1999. The new planes are expected to be up to 35% more fuel efficient than the MD-80s.
You bet... Somebody please let airports know so they can order new Jetways when the 777s replace those MD-80s. Great research, reporter.
"... AMR filed for Chapter 11 protection today after failing to secure cost-cutting labor agreements and sitting out a round of mergers that dropped it from the world’s largest airline to No. 3 in the U.S...."
This according to a noted expert on the airline industry, one who nobody's seemed to have heard from before. Here's a hint to rain on this guy's parade: The labor agreements were not the driver in the chase to the bankruptcy court, by the way. Another tid-bit: those allegedly fat cats in the AA rank-and-file have not seen any significant changes in their paychecks in eight years... and that was after major reductions in things like vacations, holidays, and holiday pay. Point: AA employees are not exactly living the life of Riley. (If you're under 40, Google it.)
Finally, where's the support for the contention that "missing out on mergers" had anything to do with the carrier's financial issues?
Don't need none of them facts, see. It's from a financial wizard, don't ya know.
"...However, AMR, which filed for Chapter 11 on Monday, is expected to shed some of its more unprofitable jets and routes through its court-supervised reorganization,..."

"Shedding routes?" The airline didn't need to go to a bankruptcy judge to cut out flying. The best part is to come when some of these junior Woodward & Bernstein wannabes find out that AMR has already petitioned to court to renounce leases on 24 jets. They'll probably report this as a part of the "route shedding" - and won't bother to find out that the airplanes involved are all already retired - some for years - and are sitting out in Roswell, waiting for the smelter. Or another space alien visitor.

Then, we have the piece de resistance of inconsequential babble. A news network asked a consumer gadfly about the effects of the merger on airport finances. Now, keep in mind that this twit has zero experience in airport financing, not to mention just about anything else in aviation. But she's a darling of the shout-you-down-if-you-disagree talk show types. But she gave it to us straight:

““It will be noticeable because of the size of AMR,... and it will create a ripple effect throughout the system....any reduction in slotting fees at their hubs would have a huge impact on the airports, and that will trickle down to the passengers,”

Slotting fees?

Golly gee! Darn! We've been totally ignoring slotting fees when doing forecasts and revenue projections for airports all these years. And, apparently so have airports coast to coast all these years, too. There needs to be a nationwide investigation of where airports are stashing this dough from slotting fees. Not to mention discovering what they are in the first place.

Stand by. The fun is just starting.
 

Flyby1206

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Maybe she meant slut fee's?

Sluts arent cheap, you have to figure in dinner, drinks, maybe a movie. Its definitely an anchor on the balance sheet
 
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