Blanket Party!

[Esprit]

Anthony Chilla..is this the same d-bag that worked at ATA?

 

[funnyman12]

Yep...do tell...

 

[waveflyer]

tzskip- your point has been debated for almost a year. The process agreement was followed- and several of us warned against alpa's conflict of interest (ie: ALPA having no motivation to facilitate things smoothly) and especially against playing hardball with SWA mgmt- you were warned- hundreds of times on this site alone- "don't do it, the culture isn't all rainbows and unicorns-" that was a seriously self-serving vote and you guys got a lesson in the real SWA culture- do the right thing and you will get more love and security from an employer than you ever thought you could- do wrong, be self-serving and prideful, lack humility- and for the sake of the company, they will act in the best interests of SWA when dealing with you. And that won't go well for you. In this deal specifically AT pilots seemed to overwhelmingly reject our roles as leaders in the integration- and this is what motivated herb and Colleen. I hope people truly get that THIS WAS NOT JUST ABOUT US AS PILOTS. As the first to go through the process, we needed to set the example and follow through on GK's VERY CLEARLY STATED DESIRE TO HAVE THIS INTEGRATION BE NEGOTIATED- did you think he was kidding?? The simple fact was that ATALPA was manipulating the process, dragging their feet, and acting dysfunctional in many ways- the cold business facts are that this deal becomes much less profitable and damaging to the culture if EVERY employee group drags out their integrations to the length of their PAs. This was stated over and over by me and many others here- But you didn't believe us or GK. Thought we were just "playing hardball". Well.....
To Lumberg's point- yeah, it's their fault for not knowing they were on a tricycle and GK is in an armored car- we all asked very publicly why they would think they could hold our culture hostage, try to use it as leverage, "better give us everything we want or your culture is ruined(!)" <- that line was used here on FI- it's still echoed by some of the bad attitudes here on both sides-
It's long over- this suit is probably silly- but things would have gone down much differently had AT pilots been allowed to vote-
But here's the bright side- this probably won't get traction- and this whole SWA acquiring AT deal will be judged much more clearly in 5 & 10 years, than right now-
Now's the time to zen out and go with the flow- my guess is we all have a really bright future- change is change. The pain being experienced is the resistance to that change. And it's 100% voluntary. Let it go.

 

[hoover84]

Their attorney is Michael Haber. The same attorney that the RJDC wankers used. Knowing that, all of the lies, misrepresentations, misspellings, bad grammar, and everything else makes perfect sense.

He's made a living at suing ALPA...He's never lost against ALPA. His current DFR case Mid-Atlantic pilots v. ALAP should settle soon....

 

[Kenney G]

The problem was the process agreement. It was the "best" we could get. Unfortunately. The language was not extremely strong and there were holes. I love how the MEC touted the process agreement as full proof when no other agreement in Airtran's history was perfect. GK could have not integrated us and exploited the holes in the process agreement. Im still disappointed that SW management pulled the non integration "threat".

I know everyone debates the AIP1 vs. AIP2 and how great AIP1 would have been. They both sucked. But with the rumors/facts of the 717 going away earlier than planned, if you read AIP1 any reductions of captian slots would have dropped the fences and captain seats would have gone in senority order i.e. to Swapa. Airtran captains that would have been "protected" would have lost their seats before it ever started. Basically turning it into AIP2. same same

 

[rajflyboy]

at any rate

Southwest is the greatest flying job in the history of world aviation

everybody is extremely lucky to be there

even the boys that Delta has allowed to exist in the atl

Delta could have squashed the bug but they chose not too! Luck is always on your side.

 

[Gillegan]

Truly an outsider looking in here - seems to me thar ALPA National had no incentive to see this thing go smoothly as they were destined to lose yet another pilot group and their dues if it did. I'm a little surprized that no one has really looked at that angle ( or maybe they have and I missed it).

 

[scoreboardII]

you missed it, this forum talked at length how alpo would drag this out to maximum to inflict pain/cost on their new competitor.

 

[dicko]

I would describe it as rumor.

Are you high Bill ? There were way to many people in the room to pretend it's a rumor. The one interesting detail about this case will be the evidence. We're all going to get a nice long look at who said what and where.

Don't be surprised if somebody jumps up from the stand and runs around the court room clucking like a chicken - screaming "I'm an Admiral, I'm an Admiral !"

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Would that be the "Pacific Fleet Commander"?

 

[dicko]

Would that be the "Pacific Fleet Commander"?

I hope the Judge likes Yoga. If it's ok to do a yoga headstand in front of a plane load of passengers, then surely the courtroom is perfect ..... :nuts:

 

[humveedriver]

and acting dysfunctional in many ways-.

Sadly... it was not an act.

 

[canyonblue]

Todd O not gonna be feeling any LUV anytime soon.

80. On the pilot web forum, read by hundreds of AirTran pilots, Ortscheid wrote, inexplicably, "There isn't the slightest chance in hell that an arbitrator would award anything less than date of hire." He also wrote, "Not going to arbitration is crazy."

WTF?

 

[humveedriver]

Dude we all felt that way. We just wanted the whole thing to go straight to arbitration, to try to get the best possible seniority possible. Water under the bridge. You can't fault our union people for trying to get us the best possible seniority. Should the first deal been put out to a vote. In retrospect yes. But only because we now realize how likely it would have been not to pass on your side.

 

[ATLplt]

80. On the pilot web forum, read by hundreds of AirTran pilots, Ortscheid wrote, inexplicably, "There isn't the slightest chance in hell that an arbitrator would award anything less than date of hire." He also wrote, "Not going to arbitration is crazy."

WTF?

Don't single out Todd. I'm pretty sure we all felt the same way, at one point, on the AT side. Why are you quoting things off of a private forum you have zero rights of access to anyway? How many pprune quotes end up on here from AT guys?

 

[ASADFW7]

On e SWAPA side there weren't public discussions on the forum. Many of the discussions that could be quoted could be out of context from a date timeline. Try to keep that in mind quotes can always be misused. As for what is going on here at flightinfo we are just discussing the topic not conducting the discovery process.

 

[GlobeIII]

. Why are you quoting things off of a private forum you have zero rights of access to anyway? How many pprune quotes end up on here from AT guys?

Not just a quote from a private forum now. It is now filed in a public legal document. That is why the #80 is at the beginning of the quote. Take it up with your own guys. Haha!

 

[humveedriver]

The more you talk to AT folks ( in person), the more you will see how the different offers affected our folks differently. The only constant was getting a decent SLI. When it became apparent (at much too late a time) that wasn't going to happen. A giant cluster f@*k ensued. People demanding to no about this threat and that threat. When where these threats known. The LEC offers were getting it hard from both ends, from the don't back down crowd and the Vote yes crowd. The logic was if you wanted the deal to be out for a vote, you obviously were going to vote yes, and you earned the colorful praise of being a "surrender monkey". Something that should have been celebrated "bought by SWA", turned into the nastiest bit of infighting at AirTran since 1996 or so. If I was a SWA guy, I wouldn't poke too hard into that bit of family business. Just say welcome aboard and help us put this past us.

 

[scoreboardII]

You should see what happened on this side.

It's over, lets move forward, welcome aboard.

 

[328dude]

Their attorney is Michael Haber. The same attorney that the RJDC wankers used. Knowing that, all of the lies, misrepresentations, misspellings, bad grammar, and everything else makes perfect sense.

Actually, these guys are filing as pro se or acting as their own attorneys. This makes more sense for the crudeness of the complaint.

Popcorn?

 

[PCL_128]

Actually, these guys are filing as pro se or acting as their own attorneys. This makes more sense for the crudeness of the complaint.

Popcorn?

No, they filed pro se, but they most certainly have an attorney, and it's Michael Haber. You probably won't see any documents with his name on them until he files amendments with new plaintiffs or counts later on. If you read the complaint, and how it's structured, it screams Haber right from the get go. And now it's confirmed that Haber is their attorney, because they have a web site up soliciting money that names him as their attorney. He wants $500 up front, plus $50 per month ongoing, to join the suit.

 

[Andy]

Geez, with all of the long winded debates on this issue, it comes as no surprise that they're being sued for not putting it to a membership vote. I argued that was a major screwup by AT's MEC. However, I never envisioned them getting sued for not putting it to a membership vote.
I sincerely hope that they're also suing the atty who was advising AT's MEC (Dan Katz of Katz and Ranzman); he's the one who gave poor legal advice to AT's MEC. He ought to be strung up by his family jewels.

 

[PCL_128]

I sincerely hope that they're also suing the atty who was advising AT's MEC (Dan Katz of Katz and Ranzman); he's the one who gave poor legal advice to AT's MEC. He ought to be strung up by his family jewels.

Fact of the matter is, you don't have the slightest clue what Mr. Katz advised the ATN MEC.

 

[328dude]

Todd:
I just find it odd if he is their attorney, why did he not file the motion instead of pro se. Procedurally, I can't see the advantage.

 

[Andy]

Fact of the matter is, you don't have the slightest clue what Mr. Katz advised the ATN MEC.

IF Katz advised sending AIP1 out for a membership vote, then it's entirely on the AT MEC. Good luck to ya; you're going to need it.

 

[Andy]

Todd:
I just find it odd if he is their attorney, why did he not file the motion instead of pro se. Procedurally, I can't see the advantage.

I imagine they're going this route to get the ball rolling while not initially spending a ton of money on legal services.

 

[outerlimits]

I imagine they're going this route to get the ball rolling while not initially spending a ton of money on legal services.

WOW

I hope that is not the case. That would be showing your hand before the game even starts.

If the case is lost, the other side had the right to counter sue for damages and cost incurred. That would end up being a lot of money to those on the law suit.