Blackwater aviation.....why not use military pilots

[avbug]

Tony,

I don't entirely aree, but I don't intend to argue with you. You've earned the right to hold that opinion, without question.

Fly safe.

 

[Pistlpetet]

The illusion of trying to have an intelligent discussion on Flight Info is about as successful as talking to a 4 year old, or your dog.

A bunch of people S--- talking about nothing they know about first hand!

 

[pilotyip]

You are right the people who know don't talk

 

[xjhawk]

i was hoping the blackwater incident would not come up on this thread. But since someone highjacked my thread, I will respond. Iraq, as much as I do not like it, is a US government operation. I think those operators.....contractor etc are just making best of a situation and bringing home the money for them and their family. Ask me if I did not get a 15 grand bonus for rejoining the army would I have done it? No I would not. How about a friend of mine who was offered like 80 grand to stay in as a navagator in the navy.....yes, 80 grand over 5 years. He would not have stayed in....he does not like the plane he is on right now and no chances of transfere. You are a fool if you think money was not a serious point in every soldiers decision making process. AS for killing civilians....give that argument up.....it was rediculous durning the vietnam war. What our liberals need to realise......war = civilian deaths and accidental friendly casualties. Unless there was intent on murdering someone, guess what, it was an accident, even if it was bad decisions. Guess what? in the heat of things like battle, sometimes the best decisions are not made. Now, I will comment on this video I saw on you tube. It was some contractors riding in a car, shooting at all the random cars that drove by. Now that, if it was the authorized practive, is wrong. yes, its a war zone, but give me a break, thats not doing anyone any good.

I will say this.....also, if someone came to my house, killed my dog because it was barking, then accidently killed a member of my family.....with no remorse....guess what, I would be the first to be shooting at those people. We must be careful in our operations.........otherwise the problem will just get worse.

 

[xjhawk]

sorry i went on there...... there have been wrongs in iraq, but take blackwater out of iraq, and the state department is left high and dry.

 

[T-prop]

Where did CitationLover go?

I'm bettin' he'll top 2,000 posts before '08.

Any takers?

 

[avbug]

Making love to his or her Citation, probably.

That's gotta hurt.

 

[CitationLover]

Making love to his or her Citation, probably.

That's gotta hurt.

right up the apu.

what's to argue anymore, we just get the "you didn't serve so you know nothing" put downs. avbug thinks i compare foreign nationals in service (whether it be for citizenship, a transfer program, or simply voluteering) to mercenaries. nope.

blackwater aviation is no different than any other cheaply run 135 outfit that'll push people to fly and chinzes on it's training as has been documented. blackwater as an organization has bait and switched ground personnel in telling them they'll be making one thing and paying them something a lot less once they signed up.

Columbians Paid $1,000/month, Americans Paid $10,000/month
About three dozen former Colombian soldiers are engaged in a pay dispute with Blackwater USA, saying their salaries for security work in Iraq turned out to be one-quarter what they had been promised by recruiters in Bogota.
The dispute sheds light on the international flavor of Blackwater's work force and the pay disparities that characterize the burgeoning private military industry.
The Colombians say they are earning $34 a day, a fraction of what Blackwater pays its American contractors in the Iraq war zone.
The security company, based in Moyock, N.C., protects U.S. diplomatic personnel in Iraq under a contract with the State Department.
According to reports last week in the Colombian news magazine Semana and the Financial Times of London, the 35 Colombians - mostly seasoned counter insurgency troops - alleged in a letter to Blackwater that recruiters had promised them salaries of $4,000 a month.
They said it was only when they were given their contracts barely hours before leaving Bogota that they learned they would be paid $34 a day, or about $1,000 a month.
"We were tricked by the company," one former Colombian army captain was quoted as saying in the Financial Times.
American contractors can earn $10,000 a month or more working for Blackwater and its competitors in Iraq.
Chris Taylor, a Blackwater spokesman, was quoted by the Financial Times as saying the dispute sprang from a change in contract terms.
"One contract expired, another task order was bid upon, and so the numbers are different," he said.
Taylor also told the Financial Times that the Colombians alleging that they had been hired under false pretenses were offered a release from their contracts, but only two accepted.
Taylor did not return phone calls but confirmed his comments in an e-mail to The Virginian-Pilot.
The pay dispute highlights one of the realities of the private military industry's globalized work force, said Doug Brooks, president of the International Peace Operations Association, a Washington-based trade group of which Blackwater is a member.
"People from some countries get paid less than others," Brooks said. "In Iraq, I think the scales are very much related to what they do, the level of risk and their capabilities."
Americans enjoy a natural advantage because they are likely to have better English language skills and higher security clearances, Brooks said.
Former soldiers from Chile, South Africa, the Philippines and a variety of other countries have turned up on the payrolls of private military companies in Iraq, sometimes resulting in political repercussions in their home countries.
The Philippines banned its citizens from working in Iraq after several were killed in insurgent attacks. In South Africa, a tough new anti-mercenary bill moving through Parliament would prohibit South Africans from participating in any armed-conflict areas without the permission of their government.

well evidently the South African government considers working for blackwater "mercenary" activity........

any comments avbug on the nyt report since they seem to dismiss most of your allegations of what happened? based on the report it seems the military thinks, yes they just shot up a bunch of civilians.

One of the military investigators said the F.B.I. was being generous to Blackwater in characterizing any of the killings as justifiable.

also, to use your own words:

You've earned the right to hold that opinion, without question.

have these organizations done that also?
http://www.ivaw.org/
http://www.vaiw.org/vet/index.php

read what they think about blackwater.

 

[satpak77]

as an aside, how are the contractors dealing with (if any exists) the ground-to-air missile threat in Afghan?

Or now, after XXX years of US occupation in the area, is that threat pretty much non-existent now?

 

[avbug]

what's to argue anymore, we just get the "you didn't serve so you know nothing" put downs.

I said no such thing. In your case, it's not a matter of "service." It's simply that you haven't a clue what you're talking about...you think you do because you read the entertainment rags...like the New York Times and Washington Post.

What do I think about the article? About as much as I think of the rest of the popular media articles on the subject. Worth the paper it's printed on...just enough to line a birdcage.

Those articles don't dismiss a thing I've said, nor do they represent the truth; just someone's version of it.

For many years, sheepdipped soldiers in many colors have been doing their duty out of uniform in different forms, so seldom with recognition, and what little there is, typically the putrid mud you sling. Of course, many serve the US out of uniform and get paid for their work, performing a legitimate mission on behalf of their country. You might have us believe this is a crime; it's not.

The US government employs a contractor to fulfill a mission, and the contractor fulfills that contract as the contractor sees fit. So long as the letter of the contract is fufilled, then the contractor may hire whom they will.

Crawl back under your newspapers and revel in your expertise, if it makes you feel better. Lacking the power to do anything, and lacking the gumption to try, perhaps it's the best you can do. Good luck with that.