Blackwater aviation.....why not use military pilots

[T-prop]

How much training did the Blackwater guys get? Is it simply hiring qualified CASA and Metro pilots and shipping them out?

http://ntsb.gov/publictn/2006/aab0607.htm

The report highlights some of their training. They have formal training in the states and they receive OE similar to the airlines when they arrive at their assignments.

They are not hiring them, pointing at a CASA after they arrive in Afghanistan and saying "you fly now!!"

It's not "Air America" the movie. Not saying that you won't hear some interesting stories from one of those pilots...

I spoke with one contractor and they will not fly with out TCAS over there. They aren't, "fly at any cost... get the mission done" cowboys.

They do, however, have very unique missions that are a blend of bush-flying, freight-flying, and "spec-ops" flying that requires enormous skill, experience, training, and professionalism.

Most are former military pilots, some were former military pilots that are/were on furlough from the airlines.

 

[CitationLover]

http://ntsb.gov/publictn/2006/aab0607.htm

The report highlights some of their training. They have formal training in the states and they receive OE similar to the airlines when they arrive at their assignments.

They are not hiring them, pointing at a CASA after they arrive in Afghanistan and saying "you fly now!!"

Yes I know what the paperwork says they were trained on, but this is REALITY. We have 100 hour consolidation over here because the government realizes it takes awhile to fit in and get the big picture, these guys were in a war zone.

The report details this.

According to the director of operations, the captain and the first officer were not provided training in mountain flying because the training was not a requirement under Part 135, and each had “extensive” mountain-flying backgrounds.

Sounds like a typical DO. Hey we weren't required to do that and look at their past history anyways. Because god knows Alaskan mountain flying is the same as Afghani mountain flying. Oh and if you get lost in Alaska, there's at least ATC, some navaids, etc to provide some assistance and no one on the ground trying to shoot at you.

According to the program site manager, there was no formal Afghanistan theater-orientation program for the pilots. The company’s standard practice was to pair new captains with another captain or a theater-experienced first officer for one or two missions; new first officers were paired with theater-experienced captains. The program site manager stated the accident captain and first officer were paired for mission-planning reasons because they were the only CASA 212 crew on site who could also fly Presidential Airways’ SA-227 airplane.

A couple legs of OE and turned loose in a war zone. That's cool. Sounds to me that standard practice was broken due to operational needs, again cheap.

So basically it is the bare minimums and then shipping them out.

 

[CitationLover]

I spoke with one contractor and they will not fly with out TCAS over there. They aren't, "fly at any cost... get the mission done" cowboys.

They aren't receiving the formal training that a military pilot would have received either.

And yes the history shows them to be extremely cheap (in the air and on the ground). Don't believe me, believe Scott Helvenston who paid with his life and wrote letters extensively documenting this.

 

[CitationLover]

They do, however, have very unique missions that are a blend of bush-flying, freight-flying, and "spec-ops" flying that requires enormous skill, experience, training, and professionalism.

The CASA 212 was an unpressurized.....

The cockpit was equipped with quick-donning oxygen masks for the captain and the first officer. The passenger oxygen masks and equipment were carried in a case and could be plugged into a console in the passenger area when their use was required.

The training program did include emphasis on pilot and passenger regulations specific to Part 135 operations, which included guidelines on pilot and passenger oxygen use. According to other Presidential Airways pilots interviewed about their own use of oxygen, one pilot stated he would use oxygen only occasionally during flights above 13,500 feet msl, and another pilot incorrectly stated the altitude requirements for oxygen use.

you were saying........

would you trust Jonathon Ornstein to provide training for pilots entering a war zone? 135 operators are even cheaper than he is.

 

[T-prop]

Yes I know what the paperwork says they were trained on, but this is REALITY. We have 100 hour consolidation over here because the government realizes it takes awhile to fit in and get the big picture, these guys were in a war zone.

You're right, it is a war zone, not a place to set up a flight school. Most companies do a similar form of "consolidation" over there.

 

[T-prop]

you were saying........

would you trust Jonathon Ornstein to provide training for pilots entering a war zone? 135 operators are even cheaper than he is.

Just like in the states, be careful of which contractor you choose work for.

 

[T-prop]

I spoke with one contractor and they will not fly with out TCAS over there. They aren't, "fly at any cost... get the mission done" cowboys.

They aren't receiving the formal training that a military pilot would have received either.

The majority are former military pilots at this particular company.

 

[Mud Eagle]

sorry i got one thing wrong as i was going from memory. they took off at twilight.

Last time I checked, "twilight" in Afghanistan was nowhere near 0753:28.

 

[avbug]

There are as many contractors in Iraq as there are mil personnel? Prove it.

Surely you aren't serious. Military vs. contractors is averaging nearly a 1:1 ratio for the most part.

Globaly, the military would be dead in the water without contractors who maintain the aircraft, build the aircraft, build the tanks, weapons, systems, satellites, and do the vast majority of functions from logistics to direct support...including real time intel during offensive actions, in theater. Contractors work at every level, and have been used for more than a century to reat effect. Contractors work at everything from heavy maintenance on combat aircraft to spraying drugs in Colombia to airborne reconaissance and observation missions to making lunch, carrying lunch, and EOD work. Many contractor roles are identical in nature to many military roles, in fact.

When the military moves, far more civillians and contractors are involved in any operation when you consider the big picture, than military personnel. You just don't hear about it. What's occuring in Iraq and Afghanistan is no different.

 

[USMCAirWinger]

Thats right! Military pilots are the best

Civilians take note.