Black leaders unhappy about Delta Air Lines’ diversity.

[eyeamthechosen1]

But that still doesn't warrant punishing the masses.

I don't have the numbers in front of me but I would guess 90% of (major,regional,fractional and corporate) applicants and positions are filled by white males and GOOD FOR THEM but explain how the masses are being punished. A lot of these programs were instituted because qualified minorities were not given a fair chance in the first place. It's not even a debate that these programs have helped white females more than anyone anyway.

 

[exagony]

I agree that in our profession the best qualified, and most proficient applicant should get the job. Those of you who have your noses so high in the air at someone other than a white male can rest easy knowing that no airline HR department would hire solely based on race. Those of you who think african-americans or any other race, or women are getting hired mainly because of race or gender...where is your proof? Why don't you concentrate on keeping the wings level and not who is coming in the HR door! I'm mainly directing these comments to ignorant, bigots like this:

All one has to do is look at United's hiring practice in the late 90's early 2000's - experienced white males need not apply

 

[Papa Woody]

You can have spirited debate about Affirmative action if you want and that's fine. But I would assume none of you guys INCLUDING MYSELF have not had to experience something like that.

Punish the guilty.....

Don't collectively punish every white man for the crimes of a few.

 

[Keydet]

I thought she was very consciensious (sp?) until she tried to say the word "ask". She kept saying "aks"... " If you need anything please feel free to 'aks' any of us and we will be happy to help you." Then, it kept coming, she liked to talk and kept "aksing" and so on. It was kind of funny and people around me were starting to laugh a little every time she said it. I don't think she even knew it.

It might be tough to find, but rent the movie "In the Company of Men", starring Aaron Eckhart. The movie sucks, except for one scene where Eckhart (the highly successful, arrogant executive type) is dressing down a young African American intern. The intern proceeds to use the phrase "just aks anyone", and Eckart leans into him and replies with, "Hey... professional tip....the word is ASK". I could watch that scene a million times and still roll over laughing.

 

[jetjock6]

Keydet, I like your avatar. I've bounced off that stand many of nights trying to get out of that place.

 

[skywiz]

Think about it this way -

I bet it would be interesting to find out what percentage of whites vs. African Americans are in the NBA? Probably many more African Americans than whites. Whites are probably a small percentage. Why is that? I would imagine it has nothing to do with skin color (like it should). It comes down to skill level. But wait a minute... do whites represented by an organization go and complain to the NBA that they are unfairly discriminated against because there aren't a larger more representative population of whites in the NBA? I don't think so.

And what is with the term 'African American'? Shouldn't I then be called European American? I thought we are all "americans"?

 

[lowtimedriver]

Don't collectively punish every white man for the crimes of a few.

I get the feeling that is what their long term intention is. They want us to know how it feels. ef em.

 

[regionaltard]

Coming from a culture of entitlement that glorifies violent antisocial behavior and rejects striving does not adequately prepare many young men for the rigors of airline life.

 

[dojetdriver]

Good for him! I guess they are all incogNEGRO LOL I can make that joke cuz Im black LOL I would like to meet him. Is he OBAP?

Good thing you are black and "can make that joke". Because if a white guy said it, it's be racist, right?

 

[IBNAV8R]

While Jumpseating, had an UAL F/O give me his unsolicited oral resume - he was a C-141 AC in the reserves and had 4,000+ hours BEFORE he got hired. It's truly sad that ANYONE should feel compelled justify their merited place in the cockpit - especially to those who don't make the hiring decisions.

 

[chimichanga]

Ive seen more black pilots at UPS in 1 month than I ever have at DAL.

What can brown do for you? :laugh:

 

[Monster Buck]

I don't have the numbers in front of me but I would guess 90% of (major,regional,fractional and corporate) applicants and positions are filled by white males and GOOD FOR THEM but explain how the masses are being punished. A lot of these programs were instituted because qualified minorities were not given a fair chance in the first place. It's not even a debate that these programs have helped white females more than anyone anyway.

I don't know if your serious or not. Are you really that ignorant to the words I said. If so here you go. If you are born white on average you will have to have triple or quadruple the hours to be competitive for the major airline job versus being any other color. Sooooo the "masses" of whites are being punished by having to work this much longer to get what a black, red, yellow....person would have to.

Just because the 90 or so percent you say have the jobs are white, doesn't mean that they were not held to completing three to four times the work to get there! Having to do three to four times the work for the same reward, in the past this was called discrimination. Funny...now we call it affirmative action.

 

[profit]

I don't know if your serious or not. Are you really that ignorant to the words I said. If so here you go. If you are born white on average you will have to have triple or quadruple the hours to be competitive for the major airline job versus being any other color. Sooooo the "masses" of whites are being punished by having to work this much longer to get what a black, red, yellow....person would have to.

Just because the 90 or so percent you say have the jobs are white, doesn't mean that they were not held to completing three to four times the work to get there! Having to do three to four times the work for the same reward, in the past this was called discrimination. Funny...now we call it affirmative action.

I second that. Yes, discrimination still exists. Yes, the deep south is heavily racist. But anyone who believes the odds aren't drastically slanted to hiring minorities in the airlines is smoking some serious stuff. And this is not just conjecture.. I have seen examples time and time again, and have spent the time to get detail on it.

 

[Benjamin Dover]

This is fine a dandy in a perfect world. I've heard stories that black applicants were given windshear(without their knowledge) on major airline interview sim evaluations in the 90's so they would be disqualified for the position. Was that fair? Just imagine you worked hard your whole life to get to a major airline interview and your chances are derailed by some ass controlling the sim because of the hue of your skin. These things are a fact. Where was the level playing field then? You can have spirited debate about Affirmative action if you want and that's fine. But I would assume none of you guys INCLUDING MYSELF have not had to experience something like that.

So, does this make it o.k. for preferential treatment of someone because of the color of the skin?

I used to work at Delta and I flew several times with a captain who used to work in flight ops and told me this story which did happen:

Back in late 90's/2000 time frame, Delta HR tried to hire former Blue Angel Commanding Officer Donnie Cochran directly as a CAPTAIN. A couple individuals in upper management thought Donnie, because he was black, would be a good role model and should be hired straight into left seat due to his Blue Angle experience (despite the fact he was fired as CO of the Blues because rest of team refused to fly on his wing anymore after a few too many scary goofs by Donnie - previous CO was brought back to finish the season, but that's a whole other issue).

Fortunately, flt ops told HR no way, that he had to go through the same drill as anyone else to get hired. But, they did get him quickly to the front of the interview line. At the time, 1st interview stage was a timed cognitive test. Donnie failed and did not continue to stage two. Most pilots would be out of luck, but HR talked flt ops into a second chance and asked if a pilot could counsel Donnie on how to do better next time. Captain I flew with got volunteered as the "counselor"

He said Donnie was a good guy, but he could not understand why Delta would not hire him as a captain - with his qualifications and all. Once they got past that, capt. tried to gouge him as best he could for the test, but Donnie failed it again second try.

So, I am sure there have been pilots denied employment due simply the color of their skin over the years. There have also been many pilots who have been give preferential treatment due simply to the color of their skin also.

 

[dojetdriver]

Here is a way to completely level the hiring playing field. You submit an application and your name, race and gender don't show up anywhere. You just get an application number. So your background and training file stands on it's own.

In a perfect world, UAL with the infamous "scantron" would have done this. We all know that wasn't the case.

It's not even a debate that these programs have helped white females more than anyone anyway.

So it's not just the white male, but the white female ALSO holds African Americans down as well?

 

[Linedriver]

In my opinion, the majority of sharp, educated minorities quietly use the system to their advantage - they know what's going on. I know I would if I were them. It speaks nothing to the white man nor the minority. In a time where competition is so stiff, if you have an advantage - use it,good for you. Seriously.

If you are a minority and don't succeed in this world it is your own fault.

As far as minority pilots go - it's a source issue. For whatever reason, the applicant ratio of minorities to white males is low. Input = output.

So now is where someone tells a story of a black pilot who didn't get a major airline job because of whatever reason. For every one of those stories I can show you 100 white guys who didn't make it either.

It's just numbers man.

 

[UALRATT]

All one has to do is look at United's hiring practice in the late 90's early 2000's - experienced white males need not apply

No, United was hiring white women only!! That because a white judge said they had to hire minorities, and so they ended up with the worlds largest percentage of white female pilots. Were they no qualified pilots that happened to be Black, hispanic, Asian, etc.? Hence the introduction to interview quotas... You're acting like you were born last week and just walked out of the jungle. In 1986 United Airlines had less than 35 black pilots. Today that number is less than 350 - out of 7000+!!! Just use your imagination to figure out which demographic group all the jobs went to. I've been employed with UAL since 2000 and have never once seen a female pilot who is black, hispanic, asian etc.

U.S. Airline Pilots, per U.S. Census, 2002. (If you think that was 8 years ago, ask yourself how much hiring was done since then?)
Total: 124,825
African American: 2,065 (1.6%)
Male: 1,925 (1.5%)
Female: 140 (0.1%)
I think you really should have a beef with the 98.4% of the white pilots hired ahead of you. Maybe you were just not so qualified after all.

Preferential hiring exist along multiple lines.
The Old Boys Club
Sons and Daughters
Recommendations
Interships
Coops
RACE
SEX
The Best and the Brightest
Who you Know Get my resume in the door etc. etc

BTW who are the bigots pushing this thread anywhere? They are the ones that will vote, not for the MOST QUALIFIED person to run this country but the one that represents their party.

I guess everything is subjective

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity"
Martin Luther King jr.

 

[exagony]

No, United was hiring white women only!! That because a white judge said they had to hire minorities, and so they ended up with the worlds largest percentage of white female pilots. Were they no qualified pilots that happened to be Black, hispanic, Asian, etc.? Hence the introduction to interview quotas... You're acting like you were born last week and just walked out of the jungle. In 1986 United Airlines had less than 35 black pilots. Today that number is less than 350 - out of 7000+!!! Just use your imagination to figure out which demographic group all the jobs went to. I've been employed with UAL since 2000 and have never once seen a female pilot who is black, hispanic, asian etc.

U.S. Airline Pilots, per U.S. Census, 2002. (If you think that was 8 years ago, ask yourself how much hiring was done since then?)
Total: 124,825
African American: 2,065 (1.6%)
Male: 1,925 (1.5%)
Female: 140 (0.1%)
I think you really should have a beef with the 98.4% of the white pilots hired ahead of you. Maybe you were just not so qualified after all.

Preferential hiring exist along multiple lines.
The Old Boys Club
Sons and Daughters
Recommendations
Interships
Coops
RACE
SEX
The Best and the Brightest
Who you Know Get my resume in the door etc. etc

BTW who are the bigots pushing this thread anywhere? They are the ones that will vote, not for the MOST QUALIFIED person to run this country but the one that represents their party.

I guess everything is subjective

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity"
Martin Luther King jr.

Don't know where that rant came from... I have no beef with anyone hired before me at United - never applied nor would I want to. Did the airline gig for 15+ years - couldn't pay me enough to go back to it. Single white male need not apply at United - never said that United only was hiring blacks (btw who cares what color one is - just who is the most qualified) United hired minorities, be it female, black, green, asian, purple etc over more qualified white male pilots. Facts are facts. Now if the pilot situation is so racist than lets look at major sports teams. Disproprtionately minorites (with the exception of hockey) Shouldn't we demand equality there too? Lets make the teams hire more white athletes on basketball teams and football and baseball. I am sure you'll claim that the black/hispanic what have you athletes are the best so they are hired to play for their respective teams. Why not the same in the aviation industry?

 

[cybourg10]

Don't know where that rant came from... I have no beef with anyone hired before me at United - never applied nor would I want to. Did the airline gig for 15+ years - couldn't pay me enough to go back to it. Single white male need not apply at United - never said that United only was hiring blacks (btw who cares what color one is - just who is the most qualified) United hired minorities, be it female, black, green, asian, purple etc over more qualified white male pilots. Facts are facts. Now if the pilot situation is so racist than lets look at major sports teams. Disproprtionately minorites (with the exception of hockey) Shouldn't we demand equality there too? Lets make the teams hire more white athletes on basketball teams and football and baseball. I am sure you'll claim that the black/hispanic what have you athletes are the best so they are hired to play for their respective teams. Why not the same in the aviation industry?

In professional sports companies fight over who gets the best players, in aviation pilots fight over who gets the best company. Worthless comparision if you ask me, if you can get the supply so low that SWA and UAL fight over who gets to hire you then you will have a point. This is the reality of the world we live in today, either accept that or not but until minorities start crashing airplanes left and right with congressmen's children on them affirmative action will not change despite how unfair it is. I will just have to wait my turn in line with the rest of the white males while minorities get to cut........yes it sucks but life could be much worse.

 

[Monster Buck]

In professional sports companies fight over who gets the best players, in aviation pilots fight over who gets the best company. Worthless comparision if you ask me, if you can get the supply so low that SWA and UAL fight over who gets to hire you then you will have a point. This is the reality of the world we live in today, either accept that or not but until minorities start crashing airplanes left and right with congressmen's children on them affirmative action will not change despite how unfair it is. I will just have to wait my turn in line with the rest of the white males while minorities get to cut........yes it sucks but life could be much worse.

After looking at your avatar I can tell these are true words of wisdom coming from a professional pilot.

"this is the reality of the world we live in today" This is what the blacks were told when they were treated unfairly. Two wrongs make a right. Good analogy to prove your point. Sarcasm if you couldn't tell.