BEWARE - Freight Runners - BEWARE

[Capt Big Daddy]

Hi Y'all,

It's not worth it. Get your turbine someplace else. Be careful of the training contract they will try to force you to sign. It's not worth it. The contract gives them the right to sue you for training costs without giving you notice of the action, without letting you know they are taking you to court, and whether or not you are at fault.

In other words, he can train you, take a dislike to you, fire you without cause, and then sue you for training costs.

Sounds like sour grapes, BUT IT IS NOT!!!!! BEWARE of FREIGHT RUNNERS! BEWARE OF FREIGHT RUNNERS. Deal with Chip Zens at your own risk.

He is a sheisty, old, good-ole-boy who has it in for all the pilots he thinks has screwed him in the past. AND, HE WILL TAKE IT OUT ON YOU.

Example of sheisty: I was told, in the midst of writing up an attitude indicator that continually rolled, that, "some pilots fail check rides because of too many write ups,...." Read between the lines folks!!! That is just an example of what to expect.

 

[Propsync]

Chip is legendary here. Have yet to meet him. But it seems everyone has a Chip story. So it probably means it's not everyone else.

 

[BoeingBaller]

There are ways of fixing guys like chip. If you need any help in this area PM me.

 

[Way2Broke]

The Chief Pilot seemed like a good guy when I met him.

I'm thinking there is more to this story. Did you work there and get fired or did you recently quit? I guess what I am wondering is, what prompted you to take the time out of your day to enlighten us on the operation?

 

[SinglePliot135]

FWIW...

If you don't want to sign it, don't work there, nobody forces you. Find a job without a contract.

FRG is what it is. I worked there and thought the people were honest and the work was hard but rewarding. Good experience, good pay, good people; I'd do it again.

 

[Way2Broke]

SinglePilot,

I think you hit the nail on the head. Anytime you take a job you should know what your getting into. If you don't you are likely to be unsatisfied. Same applies to alot of things in life.

I don't know though, I didn't live through what your talking about.

 

[time builder]

Personally, I'd take this advice, no questions asked about his situation. If someone posts something like this, and there's no one to refute it, it's usually good advice.

I've warned people about other places in aviation, but people are so desperate to get their career going that they don't listen.

 

[goodgig]

I agree time builder.

Unfortunately, there is an a$$ for every saddle and then some.

 

[X-Wind]

There are ways of fixing guys like chip. If you need any help in this area PM me.

Curious, How do you fix guys like Chip?

 

[Morettis]

Personally, I'd take this advice, no questions asked about his situation. If someone posts something like this, and there's no one to refute it, it's usually good advice.

I've warned people about other places in aviation, but people are so desperate to get their career going that they don't listen.

If you finish reading the thread, SinglePilot135 did refute it. That and this guy not responding to anything else said in the thread leads me to believe he got Sh!t Canned and is just pissy about it.

 

[goodgig]

I really don't think you can fire someone, and *then* expect to recover your training cost though.

I know they would have had a hard time getting it from me!

 

[Windsor]

I'd have to agree with the original poster. FRG is a place where you need to be one of the "good ole boys" to survive. If you write stuff up, forget it. You'll be on their sht list. Too many write ups and they will find a reason to get rid of you.

For example, i flew a plane early in the morning that developed engine trouble shortly after take off. I returned to mke and told the d.o what the problem was. He was very angry I didn't fly the plane in that condition. Brushed me off and told me to go home. Later that night I get a call to fly the same plane on a charter. I asked if the problem was taken care of, they say they cleaned the plugs and the plane is ready to go. During the engine run up, I noticed the problem was not gone and in fact seemed worse with some nice big fireballs shooting out of the exhaust. I shut it down, went into ops and told the chief what was going on. He went and got chip, chip and I had a discussion that including calling me an idiot and told me i didn't know what i was doing. He then goes out there to run up the plane to prove i was an idiot. He goes out there and gets bigger fireballs than i did. Chip storms back inside, shoots me a dirty look and yells at me to go home. Turns out one of the mags was completely shot.

A few weeks later I was fired for a "shady at best" reason. They did not enforce the contract when I was fired. I know my firing was partly my fault, but the fact that I wasnt part of chips "good ole boy" network, did not work in my favor.

 

[goodgig]

Windsor, it sounds like they did you a favor.

 

[waka]

The Chief Pilot seemed like a good guy when I met him.

I'm thinking there is more to this story. Did you work there and get fired or did you recently quit? I guess what I am wondering is, what prompted you to take the time out of your day to enlighten us on the operation?

Is that a serious question? Some people feel compelled to look out for their fellow aviators and give advanced warning......ya think?

 

[Way2Broke]

Of course it is a real question. The poster only has 6 posts, and that alone brings the credibility of the poster into question. Sometimes, before I decide to side with someone on a subject I like to see what their posting history entails. That isn't possible with this poster.

One thing is for sure, I seriously doubt that Capt Big Daddy woke up one morning, and said to himself, "I think today is a good day to warn everyone." I am sure there was something that prompted the post. Possibly getting fired, or something as simple as the comment after the attitude indicator incident. It is fair and reasonable to want to know what happened.

 

[Capt1124]

Unbelievable. If you want to say, "yeah it's probably dirtball outfit, deal with it" that's one thing, to say, "it's probably a good company and you're just mad you got fired" would show to me little practical knowledge of the aviation industry.

It's very possible and even probable the OP wrote this because he got fired and he's mad. But that doesn't mean it's not a dirtball outfit! In fact places like this like to fire people proactively. If a pilot looks like he's not with the program and may cause trouble he'll be out at the first vaguely plausible excuse, to avoid him grounding an airplane in the future (for *anything*) and as a warning to others who may get ideas, like the attitude indicator should work or the engine should run up correctly.

Learn from the experience of others. If a place has a reputation, it is probably deserved, and you can wait six months or a year to get a job at a company that doesn't put your life or your license at risk.

 

[regionalcap]

Of course it is a real question. The poster only has 6 posts, and that alone brings the credibility of the poster into question. Sometimes, before I decide to side with someone on a subject I like to see what their posting history entails. That isn't possible with this poster.

One thing is for sure, I seriously doubt that Capt Big Daddy woke up one morning, and said to himself, "I think today is a good day to warn everyone." I am sure there was something that prompted the post. Possibly getting fired, or something as simple as the comment after the attitude indicator incident. It is fair and reasonable to want to know what happened.

The number of times that someone post has nothing to do with credibility. Maybe he has more to do than sit and post on flightinfo all day. I am sure that there is more to the story but maybe he shouldn't divulge too much information here.

 

[Way2Broke]

Unbelievable. If you want to say, "yeah it's probably dirtball outfit, deal with it" that's one thing, to say, "it's probably a good company and you're just mad you got fired" would show to me little practical knowledge of the aviation industry.

It's very possible and even probable the OP wrote this because he got fired and he's mad. But that doesn't mean it's not a dirtball outfit! In fact places like this like to fire people proactively. If a pilot looks like he's not with the program and may cause trouble he'll be out at the first vaguely plausible excuse, to avoid him grounding an airplane in the future (for *anything*) and as a warning to others who may get ideas, like the attitude indicator should work or the engine should run up correctly.

Learn from the experience of others. If a place has a reputation, it is probably deserved, and you can wait six months or a year to get a job at a company that doesn't put your life or your license at risk.

I never said, "it's probably a good company and you're just mad you got fired."

I have worked at places that had the reputation of being a great company, and it sucked. I have also worked for companies that had the reputation of being a dirtball outfit that I was really happy at. I am by no means saying he is wrong, as he lived it, not me. It is his opinion, how could he be wrong for having a opinion. As far as "putting your life and license at risk" I am a firm believer that only a pilot is capable of that. If you accept a plane that is not airworthy, it is your fault. You sign the paperwork, and you also push the levers forward and pull back. Those are your choices, and you are the only one that has the authority to do both of them. If I get fired for being safe, so be it, because what is the point of getting a paycheck if your dead when it clears. If the poster stood up for safety, then kudos to him.

I see your point of course: if you know what you might be getting yourself into by listening to someone elses experiences you might protect yourself from ever having to deal with it. But if you don't know the whole story, are you really protecting yourself?

You guys are hanging me for wanting to know what happened. Even something as simple as, "I got fired for being safe" would satisfy my curiousity.

 

[Way2Broke]

The number of times that someone post has nothing to do with credibility. Maybe he has more to do than sit and post on flightinfo all day. I am sure that there is more to the story but maybe he shouldn't divulge too much information here.

Sure it does, otherwise it is kindove like taking the advise of a stranger.

I do agree with you that if he is not comfortable sharing, then he shouldn't.

 

[waka]

Sure it does, otherwise it is kindove like taking the advise of a stranger.

I do agree with you that if he is not comfortable sharing, then he shouldn't.

I have to disagree. Message board "seniority" means nothing.....or little at best.

 

[Chief Pilot]

I'll throw my $.02 in just because I've personally met Chip. I met him several times while working for a cargo outfit in Wisconsin. He is the most arrogant SOB I have ever met. I've seen him attempt to intimidate everyone from his own pilots to FBO employees. His aircraft look like $h!t. Granted looks don't necessarily mean unairworthy, but I would never trust my life to one of those poorly maintained buckets of tin. I've had a sincere dislike for this dirtball from the first time I met him and always wondered why anyone would work for him. This is an outsider's point of view, so maybe I missed the "softer" side of Chip, but I doubt it. Take it FWIW, exactly $.02.

 

[freighthumper]

I have to disagree. Message board "seniority" means nothing.....or little at best.

I dont think it is a matter of seniority, its a matter of being able to judge a post by the poster's previous attitude. A poster with 200 posts that say "Mesa sucks" has no credibility, while some posters have 3000 posts of worthwhile information. Someone that has only a few posts all bitching is questionable.

 

[Way2Broke]

It's not like Freight Runners is actually hiring right now anyways. But I agree with what thumper said.

If your interested in working somewhere, talk to people that work there now, go interview, look around, keep your head on a swivel, and if you have a little bit of experience you know what to look for.

You will know in short order if you made the right decision or not.

I will say right now though that I am not a big fan of training contracts. They are one sided to the point that I am not guaranteed employment for a period of time, yet I guarantee them my service.

With that said, Freight Runners in not laying off. Right now, that is pretty amazing. Although, just like other on-demands, business is slow. Thank god for the UPS runs.

Not many on-demand carriers are exactly career companies. They have their use, much like the check haulers. Get your experience, learn from it, and move on when the time is right.

Figured I would throw this out there too, I am not a employee of Freight Runners, nor have I ever been. I have seen the operation though, and afterward I had no inclination to say anything about them besides they look like a on-demand cargo company. They have all the good and bad that comes with that. Smoke and mirrors don't go very far with me. You have to know what your getting into. Every place is what YOU make it.

 

[TheBigMan]

MOTION 2nd.

I'll throw my $.02 in just because I've personally met Chip. I met him several times while working for a cargo outfit in Wisconsin. He is the most arrogant SOB I have ever met. I've seen him attempt to intimidate everyone from his own pilots to FBO employees. His aircraft look like $h!t. Granted looks don't necessarily mean unairworthy, but I would never trust my life to one of those poorly maintained buckets of tin. I've had a sincere dislike for this dirtball from the first time I met him and always wondered why anyone would work for him. This is an outsider's point of view, so maybe I missed the "softer" side of Chip, but I doubt it. Take it FWIW, exactly $.02.

Worked there for a year.

 

[hecbir]

is chip the chief pilot

 

[skier17]

I have a very good friend that has flown for
Frieght Runners for a few years now, and has enjoyed it. Maybe he has a good relationship with management, I don't know...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The problem with these 135 operations is money and people. Usually, the profit margins are so thin and people running the operations are weak managers and pathetic leaders.

They probably don't want you flying an airplane with a busted ADI or flaming engine either, but when pilots do a write up, all they can see is the cost to fix it... cost they really don't have... it overwhelms them. Chip getting angry is really Chip fearing he doesn't have the budget....

These outfits really shouldn't be operating...

If the pay is fair to weak and training contracts are needed to coerce pilots to stay then there is a serious business model flaw....

Finally, call the feds...

The feds are over worked and don't have time to harass a 135 outfit. So a call to the feds isn't going to put the 'KGB' on the case. In addition, if it is an above board operation, then Chip should be able to handle an inspection....

When I was building time, I flew for a couple of these operations. The lack of support, unprofessionalism, good ol' boy network, pay to play... it is all disappointing...

 

[jafo20]

This thread is old, but I just came across it as I'm sitting in my hotel tonight.

I flew for Chip. In fact, I made a lateral job move specifically to fly for Chip. Let me write a mini-novel for whoever might be thinking of coming to FRG.

At company A, I was flying Beech 99s on a UPS run. I pumped by gear down twenty-three times one month. I'd manage to get the freight to the destination. Mechanics would come out. Problems would be identified and one or two legs later my gear would be stuck again. I was on the right coast while my wife was finishing her master's in Wisconsin. One night, right after I hit the crew house pissed off from pumping my gear down again, I saw Chip advertising for Beech 99 pilots in my home town. I applied, got called and was hired over the phone. I stupidly left a company that was happy to have me to do the same job in the same plane for the same money in WI.

When I got to Freight Runners, I discovered Chip's outfit was no different than the one I left. The planes had a different door, and the paperwork was in a different format. That was about it.

Things would break. I'd write 'em up. People would grumble, but mx crews would work on the write-ups I made. Chip made a point of stocking spares for MX while my previous company forced the DM to get the CEO’s permission for any purchase in excess of twenty dollars.

So, even though the planes were ugly and ratted-out. I never had any mx issue that wasn't resolved. Sometimes people would b-tch, but the wrenches were still turned. I didn't care about any noises coming from one office or another.

Chip never missed payroll. He consistently lived up to his end of whatever contract he had. Insurance was decent. Compensation was adequate. You do know that you're going to get paid and that you're not going to be laid-off. That's worth something.

With regard to Chip's personality, he's very straightforward and blunt to the point of fault. I remember, after going to interview with my next employer, he called me up to insult and yell at me. "Where is your f###ing loyalty?" was how he started the phone call. Faced with an unusual professional situation, I made an unusual professional decision. I yelled and insulted back. After having a screaming match over the phone with the guy, we were cool. In fact, Chip was actually pretty nice after that. I never caught Chip playing any sort of backdoor political games with his crews.

In short, Chip might be abrasive, but he’s honest, transparent and predictable. I value honesty and transparency. I wouldn’t mind working with Chip again.

Freight Runners does go through a lot of airplanes. Three weeks after I left, they crashed 3 airplanes. Just recently, they lost another one. I don’t know what to say about these except that they were all weather related. I flew and fly in all weather, all the time with 100% dispatch reliability. That just means I’ve been lucky for five years, and I’ve probably pushed ahead when I should have turned back. The crews of those lost planes were as good or better than I am.

Chip’s outfit is a good one if you don’t let him or his guys get under your skin. If you do let them bug you, you’ll rapidly hate the place.

I thought Chip was okay. I’d drink beer and eat nachos with the guy.