Best Positioned Fractional

[FastJP4]

Very good point by all. Not sure if the lean and mean Flex model is better or the largest market share model of NJ is better.

One thing that comes to mind though. I would imagine NJ is making some very good coin on the long range stuff overseas and around the globe - they are definately leaps and bounds ahead of all in this area. Flex has the Challengers, but I think they only do a fraction (no pun intended) of long range trips compared to NJ. CS and Flops really don't have the equipment for the long range model.

I wonder if the new guy at Flex was brought in to attempt to gain a larger share of the international flying that NJ's currently owns the market on. Wasn't Reids forte setting up the Alliance program at Delta?

 

[jonjuan]

Very good point by all. Not sure if the lean and mean Flex model is better or the largest market share model of NJ is better.

One thing that comes to mind though. I would imagine NJ is making some very good coin on the long range stuff overseas and around the globe - they are definately leaps and bounds ahead of all in this area. Flex has the Challengers, but I think they only do a fraction (no pun intended) of long range trips compared to NJ. CS and Flops really don't have the equipment for the long range model.

I wonder if the new guy at Flex was brought in to attempt to gain a larger share of the international flying that NJ's currently owns the market on. Wasn't Reids forte setting up the Alliance program at Delta?

The longer range intl trips typically have lower margins than the shorter domestic trips, in part due to deadhead. It's not uncommon for many 6+ hour deadheads to pick up/drop off a G-V owner in Bali, for example.
If FlexJets or any other frax starts to operate the GLEX, many of their new owners will certainly come from NJI.

 

[BoeingBaller]

Avantair flies Piaggio Avanti aircraft.

The aircraft flies just under 500 miles on around 80 gallons of Jet A in one hour.

It has a stand up cabin and is very quiet.

Movie stars, bankers and oil execs love it.

I work there now and even turned down a NetJet interview. I have certainly put my money where my mouth is so to speak.

This is my opinion and I endorse this post.

Who dey?

 

[cherry20's]

Wow an educated post with no verbal bashing, yet...

I am impressed though and wish I could add something to the conversation, but I haven't been in this business long enough. Good luck to every fractional company though. It sure beats the hell out of the airlines or freight flying!

 

[RNObased]

The longer range intl trips typically have lower margins than the shorter domestic trips, in part due to deadhead. It's not uncommon for many 6+ hour deadheads to pick up/drop off a G-V owner in Bali, for example.
If FlexJets or any other frax starts to operate the GLEX, many of their new owners will certainly come from NJI.

Ok jonjuan,

I'm going to question you again??? Where do you get your information??? Making it up again or just guessing???

So you think that if Flex gets bigger jets then NJI is in trouble?? Man, you crack me up.

If/when Flex gets longer range jets probably a lot of the owners would come from Flex, because most of the time current owners are given first shot at new equipement. But then you would know that if you knew anything about fractionals. I also doubt that NJIs planes would be empty.

As for repo costs, there is a time and place where a 6 hr ferry happens, but when you reach a certain size then there are jets always a lot closer.

Sorry for the negitive post folks, but Jonjuan is the king of making stuff up.

 

[skyaddict]

I'm just a 3 year guy at NJ and love it here, and I'm no business model guru, but the impression I get is that NetJets growth model is to fracs as SWA is to the airlines... growing steady and deep rather than fast and thin. The growing pains of sim delays etc would now appear to have a silver lining, by not saddling us with too much "excess" growth. Maybe I'll make career FO after all, but still not a bad gig vs accelerator/brake.

Clearly fracs in general are a better place to be than the airlines, and it would take a deep global recession to really hurt us. But of course, that's not out of the question in the next year or two- and good luck and at worst, soft landings to all.

 

[Correcting]

Avantair will certainly be the easiest to track, since they are a publicly traded company.

 

[glasspilot]

Who dey?

dey the little company that'll steam roll ya. Watch ya ass.

 

[Fozzy]

On the other hand Netjets has much higher unsold shares and higher crew ratios but can bleed losses for a longer period of time. The leader will end up being the company that continues to provide excellent customer service and provide a reliable value to the owner.

Please post your reference.
Because as per our President, we are not the ones with unsold aircraft.

 

[gutshotdraw]

The longer range intl trips typically have lower margins than the shorter domestic trips, in part due to deadhead. It's not uncommon for many 6+ hour deadheads to pick up/drop off a G-V owner in Bali, for example.
If FlexJets or any other frax starts to operate the GLEX, many of their new owners will certainly come from NJI.

If a deadhead is required outside of the standard coverage area, the owner has to pay for those re-positioning legs with all the fractional programs. And since NJ has a MUCH larger coverage zone, owners pay much lower international positioning fees with Netjets versus any of the others. And rich people are pretty good at advanced math.

Let's just say I'm sleeping pretty good at night about my job security. Even better every time I airline and get the double bend-over from the Thousands Standing Around.

 

[johnnyride24]

XOJET
We all know they are the best!!!!:nuts:

 

[FastJP4]

XOJET
We all know they are the best!!!!:nuts:

Appreciate your post and all, but I originally asked for no pom-poms or mine is bigger than your's types of posts. Let's keep this on track.

That being said, WHY do you think XO is the best and how do you feel they're positioned for a slow economy? Do you think their model of operations is better suited for a slow economy? Why?

 

[FastJP4]

The longer range intl trips typically have lower margins than the shorter domestic trips, in part due to deadhead. It's not uncommon for many 6+ hour deadheads to pick up/drop off a G-V owner in Bali, for example.
If FlexJets or any other frax starts to operate the GLEX, many of their new owners will certainly come from NJI.

I agree with the Global aspect. I think if one of the Frac's ever gets into Globals - they could attract a tremendous amount of long haul type owners. My understanding is NJ is anti-Bombardier from something years ago with Santulli. That leaves Flex, as a Bombardier company the logical choice for a Global program - yet they don't seem like they can bring them in to their fold. That's why in an earlier post I referenced their hiring of Fred Reid. He has alot of int'l connections after establishing the Alliance program for Delta, connections and experience that could go along way if Flex ever recognized what the Global could do for them. Opinions???

 

[Publishers]

The difficulty in this business is the deadheads. When you work some area like the east coast corridor, then things are fairly easy. With international, and, very remote areas like lets say Billings Montana and you have one client there who calls for his share of a Citation X to run to LAX, you tend to have more trouble locating and deadheading the aircraft. When you have a GV down in Russia and have to get a replacement, it costs through the nose. These are just some of the issues that make it very tough to make it profitible.
This is also what makes growth past a point hard.

 

[waka]

Appreciate your post and all, but I originally asked for no pom-poms or mine is bigger than your's types of posts. Let's keep this on track.

That being said, WHY do you think XO is the best and how do you feel they're positioned for a slow economy? Do you think their model of operations is better suited for a slow economy? Why?

I think efforts to predict the long term future of aviation businesses are always futile....even in the fracs. I liken such endeavors to astrology.