BE60 Duke Question

[tommyd]

Runway hog, expensive on maintinence, underpowered, slow cruise and poor on resale. you would be probably be much better off with a larger twin cessna.

 

[LJ45]

and...burns lots of fuel for the cabin size and speed.

 

[CarjCapt]

Hot Rod

If you don't care about pressurization and want a Beech product consider the BE56 Baron. It is a 55 baron with the Duke engines. If you find one you will be paying for the engines and getting the airframe for free.

 

[Lead Sled]

If you don't care about pressurization and want a Beech product consider the BE56 Baron. It is a 55 baron with the Duke engines. If you find one you will be paying for the engines and getting the airframe for free.

I have quite a bit of time in a 56TC. I can't imagine the circumstances under which I'd recommend anyone buying a nearly 40 year-old Baron with Duke engines. Wait, I just thought of a scenario...

I'm involved in a horrific automobile accident and they have to remove half of my brain - the half associated with logical thought.

I've flown a couple different 56TCs and have several hundred hours in them. What a hot-rod! A straight 55 was just as fast up to about 8,000' or so, but after that there was no contest. I understand that there are STC'd mods to fix the cam problem with the big Lycomings; however we never had any problems with the engines.

To give you some idea of how the airplane performed, the original airframe was basicially the old Beech Travel Air which uses 180 hp Lycs on each wing for a total of 360 hp. The 56TC had 380 hp hanging on each wing! The story goes that Beech used a 55 Baron as a flying test bed for the Duke engine installation. When one of the company executives flew the airplane he had to have one and they ended up building a few.

If you happen to be seduced by the thought of flying one of those beasts and the priviledge of having to maintain a nearly 40 year-old Beech light twin just imagine how your mechanic will shed tears of joy for his sudden good fortune and his wife's thrill as he explains his new found job security and how they will now be able to afford that new car and new home, not to mention that their kids will now be able to attend the college of their choice.

Yep, it sounds like a win-win situation to me.

LS

 

[AA717driver]

Well, the good news is, in a Duke you could probably fly through a brick building and walk away.

The bad news is, if you lose an engine, you'll probably have to...

A Duke would make an excellent gate guard for a civilian airfield. Good looking, sexy airplane that won't fly anymore. TC

 

[CarjCapt]

Lead Sled Correct

You are so right about the 56TC.

I always thought the 56TC and the Duke are sexy looking and were built because of ego rather than performance.

I flew the Duke briefly (in the mountains) and found it a ground loving, hope the any engine doesn't quit, small cabin aircraft.

With the Royal Turbine the ego continues now costing about a million to join the club. If I had to have a Duke (and I had a million to spend on aircraft) I'd buy it and keep replacing the engines put fuel in it and still retire with money left over.

But thank goodness we have choices...Cessna 414 would be my aircraft of choice.

 

[av8tortype]

Anyone have any experience maintaining a Duke? Looking at 1979 that looks like a good a/c for the money. What are the weak points and is the bad reputation deserved? Thanks

I own and fly a 1974 B60 so I have a few anecdotes I can share. Overall, it's built better than any Cessna or Piper product in its class but with less than 600 produced can be tough on the pocket book if you buy one that's had skimpy maintenance.

 

[Blackjet]

Oh buddy, it's a MX hog. It was advanced for its time; You see, the Engineers designed with the nose close to the ground. The reason for this is so that it can automatically sniff out a mechanic. Innovative.

Seriously, think about what you are buying; a PISTON powered, turbo charged aircraft and the engines are also used to pressurize the aircraft and probably to deice the aircraft as well. That's a lot of work for a piston engine. Any piston engine is already trying to tear itself apart, then add all of those factors, and you have got a lot of stress. Those engines are putting out a lot of heat and we all know what heat does to engines. They are going to be expensive to maintain with what is available today.

If you do get one, try finding a full synthetic to run in the engines. People will tell you differently, but look, science it science, and a full synthetic will pull heat away from the engine and turbo as well as suspend the dirt/sludge in the engine. It'll clean the H#ll out of that engine. Years ago, Mobil put out a synthetic aircraft oil and they all leaked oil and people blamed the synthetic for that. In a sense, that was true, but the problem was the age of the engine, not the oil.

With any engine, aircraft or car, you can't just go putting synthetic oil in it. If the engine has some wear, and the seals have started to harden/crack, putting synthetic in there will do nothing but identify the leaks; ALL OF THEM. Synthetic is some slick stuff. That was the problem with the mobil oil. All these aircraft owners were putting it in engines that had hardened seals and it leaked everywhere. That was the problem. Get a Duke with fresh engines, and slap some full synthetic in there.

Along with the Oil:
1) Let the engine warm up totally at idle before you take off/apply take off power. That is a must. Pilots not letting that happen causes more damage to these Duke engines than anything else. The oil is not getting to every part of the engine (it's too thick because it is not heated to operating temperature)
2)DO NOT exercise the props during the run-up. That puts a great deal of stress on the engine and specifically the pistons. It bows them and it is unnecessary. When you apply Take off power, you'll know right away if there is a problem with the Prop governor.
3) At least 3 minutes at idle (or a little above. Just make sure the engine is not producing enough exhaust to power the turbo) before you shut it down. What this does is let the actual turbine wheel of the Turbo charger spool down while being lubricated with oil. that turbine spins at several thousand RMPs, and if you do not let it spool down with lubrication, the bearings coak, and it destroys the turbo. The lack of lubrication aggravates the heat build-up and there is nothing to take the heat away from the turbo.
4) Get a Pre-Oiler. Run it until oil pressure is at it's stabilized operating range and once that happens, start the clock and let it run for 30 seconds after the pressure is stabilized.
5) Plan your decents properly. People think shock cooling kills these engines and that is not the case. It certainly does not do them any favors, but it is not the end all. just don't be foolish about it. These engines have a lot of heat to go around. Think about it; trainers make it to over haul frequently, and they are shock cooled everytime they fly.
Those things alone with get you to OverHaul if you are religous about it. Good Luck.

 

[av8tortype]

.... snipped .... Good Luck.[/quote]

That's probably the only thing about what Blackjet said that I find specific to the Duke ... luck! Some have had camshaft issues, even from the factory, and some have gone well past TBO. Everything else is standard to any other pressurized twin. Built like a King Air, handles like a Bonanza, priced like a Baron and a good family hauler (wife, 4 kids, 2 dogs and nose full of luggage).

Blackjet .. the vacuum pumps run the wing de-ice, the turbos pressurize the cabin and the engines turn the props. That's how it is in the piston world.

 

[Blackjet]

Some have had camshaft issues, even from the factory

Are you suggesting the engine manufactures are producing engines that cannot be properly lubricated when operate per their own reccomendations? I sure hope not.

Those camshaft issues are from lack of lubrication, as I spoke of earlier. The Camshaft is the biggest common problem with the duke engine. Once again, oil is not at operating temperature when takeoff power is applied, so the camshaft is subject to lots of heat from the metal on metal contact, because the cam shaft (lobes) are actuating the lifters/rocker arms with less than the required amount of protection/lubrication.

Blackjet .. the vacuum pumps run the wing de-ice, the turbos pressurize the cabin and the engines turn the props. That's how it is in the piston world.

Genius, 'in the piston world", where does that vacuum pump and turbo get its power from?

Do you not know how those systems work? Just in case, let me explain:

Those items you spoke of are not self sustaining. That means the engine produces the power to run the items/systems you spoke of. If the engine is not working, neither are those items. That means, the engine essentially pressurizes the cabin, turns the props, runs the de-ice, etc. Furthermore, the exhaust being slowed by the turbo causes a pressure buildup in the engine that greater increses stress on the engine. There a a lot of factors and things to consider when a piston engine is used to power so many systems. You should know this if you are attempting to dispute what I have said. It seems that you need to go back and educate yourself on exactly how a piston engine works, with focus on their setups in aviation applications. It's not the same as a car.

So, what eactly was your point?