Be careful out there now! You don't know who to trust these days!

[CaptWidgeon]

do these guys have the worst sa in the industry or what?

 

[Deerkiller]

Whaaat?

So...you have no Nav radios in that ship?


I think not.


YKMKR

Like the other guy said...there are no Nav tuning heads. Everything is in the box.

 

[ron burgundy]

Like the other guy said...there are no Nav tuning heads. Everything is in the box.

True. No nav heads. However, entering an ILS freq in the "nav/rad" (or wherever that was) page is the same thing as manually tuning a freq. So I guess there is a way.

 

[boxjockey]

This is the way we fly the 400 at CX. You load the approach in the box and the ILS is auto-tuned. We do however have a check before intercepting the LOC that has to be cross-checked by both pilots. We confirm that we have the correct ID on the LOC as displayed on the PFD and that it is correctly sensing LOC position. You can manually tune the ILS, but it is against our ops, to remove errors.

box

 

[waveflyer]

Doesn't answer for GPWS warnings and the Radar Altimeter- what procedures do you have to crosscheck that the database is correct. What's the back up landing into rvr's?

As for a rejected landing and divert.... i've never declared an emergency for that- so there was something more going on- but I tend to agree with the previous poster. Handling things like this needs to be in your blood. It's what we get paid for.

Too many of us show up with the expectation that everything will be routine - feet up- get back home... Getting point A to point B isn't what we get paid for- Your habits and how you fly shouldn't be determined by the 99% everything goes right-

Good job capt and FO- but a lawsuit and reaction like that seems strange without knowing more. And watching a local media report can hardly be categorized as a way to know anything about this. Especially since everyone's clearly lawyered up.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Wave, on the tape at one point they declared min fuel, then started the approach to 28R a second time before going around again. I think the emergency declaration was for low fuel.

As to the rest.....well, I'm glad we can select old-school ground navaids in the Gulfstream and not rely totally on some programmer in cubicle hell at Honeynotsowell.

 

[strega7]

If you pause the video when they show the documents, it looks like Honeywell mistakenly put the LDA LOC/GS data in where the ILS28R data should have been in the database. When they selected the ILS28R they were actually flying the offset profile for the LDA, usually only used during PRM approaches. You only follow the LDA until 4 DME then slide over to the centerline and land. If they followed the GS down close enough to see water they should have been somewhere just north of taxi way charlie!!!! I wonder if ATC didn't watch them closely on the first attempt, and only then noticed their "north of centerline" error on the second aborted attempt. The LDA approach required 4 miles vis, hate to try and use it on a 1200 RVR day!

 

[bluefin]

do these guys have the worst sa in the industry or what?

Apparently they have the best, they got out of there didn't they? what did they do wrong? apparently Honeywell were the ones that screwed up. Setting up the ILS28R properly in the box but the info for that approach was screwed up in that data base. The only way to have seen that was thru a diagnostic analysis of the info loaded by the manufacturer. Too many arm chair quarter backs.

 

[waveflyer]

No the situation was handled.
It's the PTSD lawsuit that's another story.
Cougar didn't sue- just turned in his wings and let Mav take his slot

 

[Basil]

Apparently they have the best, they got out of there didn't they? what did they do wrong? apparently Honeywell were the ones that screwed up. Setting up the ILS28R properly in the box but the info for that approach was screwed up in that data base. The only way to have seen that was thru a diagnostic analysis of the info loaded by the manufacturer. Too many arm chair quarter backs.

The question on my mind is: Regardless of the fact that the approaches were coded incorrectly, did the Nav Display show waypoints for the LDA/GS 28R or the ILS 28R? Also, did they fail to confirm the FAF/GS intercept altitude? Unless that approach has changed since then, the DME difference to be at 1800' on GS is 7.4 DME vs 6.0 DME. And the identifier I-GWQ vs I-FNP. If they missed all that twice....

Suppose the relief pilots would have been watching all this too?