Banner Towing?

[kwb13]

I am thinking about taking a banner towing job, but don't now if it's worth it. I have spent a lot of time and money getting the ratings I have, I just don't know if it's worth it to get a banner tow endorsement. How can a banner tow endorsement help my career? I'm having a REALLY hard time finding a flying job, this is the ONLY offer that I've gotten. Even if I take the job, I still have to fork out money for the training. I guess if you want to fly banners for rest of your life it would be money well spent. It's just hard to justify spending that much money for a job that does'nt pay well. I don't think that this is PFT, I would never do that. I understand that it is very specialized training, I'm just having a hard time making up my mind!

Any suggestions?

 

[leardvr]

Banners

Did it, loved it, lots-o-fun. I suppose if you need flight time go for it, if you need to stay current your out of luck b/c banners don't fly at night (rare exceptions), in clouds, or multi engine a/c. I can't imagine how much they could charge you for training. Maybe things have changed, but 5 years ago you did a couple practice pick up's and drops and then demoed it for your employer, who holds the waiver and bingo you are done. Maybe 30 min. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, it's been awhile. Go for it it's a fun way to fly, and 15 years from now you'll still tell stories of when you flew with the door off and your feet hanging out in the breeze over the beach or a Mich. game.

 

[kwb13]

I don't have a tail-wheel endorsement, that's what costs a pretty penny. Also, there is a program endorsed by the FAA that requires a psuedo checkride by a DE. The total time to finish the training is 7-10 days(15-20 hrs. flight and ground). Is this unusual? I know their are companies out there that just require a tail-wheel endorsement and about 3 hrs of training and your done.

The guy I talked to did say that this was a pretty new program and that only a handful of companies use it, but I thought it made sense. Airlines have a training program, why should this be any different? I've been through airline training, and I'm sure it's not the same, just the fact that there is specialized training for that particular company makes it similar. I do need the flight time and it sounds fun and different, but it costs 2 GRAND!!!

Again, I ask, any suggestions?

 

[leardvr]

[b]2K???[/b]

2K, are they nuts. Unless you REALY need flight time NO WAY. Think how much flight time in a twin or an Arrow you could get for that. In Banner towing you don't get x-country, at least with most operators. As far as training, 15-20 hours seems high, unless maybe that includes the tail wheel sign off also. The tail wheel sign off might take 5-10 ours depending on your skills. But the banner operations should be simple. I find it hard to believe that they can find a DE willing to do those types of check rides. Like I said maybe things have changed.

By the way where are you looking to do this

 

[tangodelta21]

I'm towing banners right now and recomend it, if anything it builds character along with your log book. First of all DO NOT go to Aerial Messages of Daytona. That POS got my last $2500 from my severens check to train and no job. The training was fun though, In DAB over spring break but not $2500 worth of fun. If you do have to end up paying for training negotiate a deal to do it by the hour. They will quote you $2000 for 20 hours and fly you 10 and sign you off. So tell them $100 per hour and see how they like that. It shouldn't take more than 10 hours, I was teaching rocks to tow in way less than that. And get your tailwheel as soon as possible. Cessnas stink at banner towing and nowhere near as safe as something with some pony's under the hood. If you have any questions let me know and I'll do my best to answer them.

 

[momalley81]

I'm going to agree with Tangodelta here. I spent last summer draging rags on the Jersey Shore. Stay away from that company out of Daytona, we had 2 guys come from there, both said it was a complete waste of time and money. Our company charged $500 for training, but refunded it after you stayed for the whole season.

"Checkride" consisted of 2 pickups and drops. Now, I'm not going to BS you. It's not for everybody. You'll spend all your time flying beat up stripped down wrecks low and slow. You'll rack up some serious flight time in a hurry, but when (not if) the $#!% hits the fan, you won't have many options. I flew over 300 hours in 3 months, had 2 engine failures, almost a 3rd, had an oil leak a few times that completely covered my windshield in oil, couldn't see a thing. If stick and rudder, seat of your pants flying isn't for you, don't do it. I had airspeed, altimeter, and a tach. That was it, spent most of my time looking at the engine guages though.

All that being said, I loved the hell out of it. Wouldn't have traded it for the world. I'll probibly do it for one more season, then I'll have enough time to get a better position somewhere (I hope!)

PM me with any questions.

 

[Stephen]

momalley81,

Enquiring minds want to know. I'd like to hear the stories of two engine failures while towing banners. As you said, your options are pretty limited. Do tell...

Stephen

 

[jon210]

If this place you are taking about is in Flagler/Daytona, Florida stay away. He will steal your money.

 

[LearAv8r]

I think that towing banners is an excellent way to build time, however in your profile you state that you have Emb-145 time. Though I can't see going backwards in your career. It also depends on how mobile you are. Granted there are many, many companies that are dirtbag operations. The one that I worked for was Aerial Sign Company out of Hollywood, Florida. They are a class act and I loved working there. The 15 - 20 Hours that everyone here is complaining about is well worth it. It may save your life. I have seen many companies all over the US that pick these signs up in a dangerous manner. There is a SAFE way to do this.

Maintenance is definately important if not crucial. Be careful. If you do decide to go this route do your homework and stay away from seasonal operators. They will probably not teach you properly and will cut costs. Like I said I did it for a while and built up good time. Lots of cross country and I also go to see the US from 500 feet.

With your jet time you should be able to find a better job,

As for telling the guy that you want $100 per hour, they are going to show you the door

Good Luck

LearAv8r-

 

[kwb13]

Yes, I do have some turbine 121 experience, both turbo-props and jet. I would love to find something flying more advanced equipment but I am just under 135 mins and have been everywhere looking for a FO position at charter operations and also have been to all of the local flight schools for a instructing job. I am also looking for a change. I flew 121 for 8 months, got furloughed twice, finally got called back and hated being away from my family. I am trying to find something locally, I don't mind being gone a couple days out of the week, I just would like to steer away from the gone for 2 weeks at a time jobs.

It's funny how you spend your whole career thinking you know exactly what you want to do, and then when you get there it's like you made a mistake. I NEVER thought I would want to do anything else but fly for an airline, but now I know different. Times change, people change. 9-11 changed a lot of that for me.

Thanks for listening,

Mr. Mom!

 

[H8U]

Dont U know that banner towing "waivers" have been recalled by the morons at the TSA? The banner boys are as good as done.

 

[momalley81]

Stephen, you really wanted to know?

Well, first of all, I was flying for one of the companies that LearAv8r warned you about. But as green as I was, I didn't realize it until I was in too deep. But at least we hadn't had a fatal accident in our company's 57 year history. We averaged a major wreck at least once, sometimes twice a season, but no fatals.

Anyway, I was lucky enough to have my two engine failures at a relativly safe time; right after takeoff from our 1500' grass strip. Both times I was able to get a restart; first was by switching to a single mag, turns out one was timed to fire at 23 degrees, the other at 32 degrees. The second time was my own fault, someone moved my plane and turned off the fuel valves (keep in mind, this was MY plane for the season, I was the only one flying her) I had never touched the darned things in 200 hours, so I never checked 'em on takeoff. Oops.

The fun one was when my plugs started to foul out while under tow. I think I posted that story on the "Oh $h!t" moments" thread. Long story short, I was serously contemplating going for a swim in the Atlantic Ocean, because that was the ONLY option at the time.

 

[ilinipilot]

Its a miracle you didnt die Momalley.
I lost 10 bucks b/c u didnt
D

PS pick up the beer anytime I will be away till Sate evening

 

[LR25]

I have been towing for a long while off and on, its alot of fun and it makes you a (let me find the right words), a better pilot maybe, but you start to develope some bad habits.

But I do highly reccomend it. I have done it when I needed to build time and also after I got my career going, for fun and extra cash.

And my motto for banner flying is, it is as safe as YOU make it.

Banner flying is not anything hard to learn, you just have to get comfortable with it. I also agree that you should not be spending 2K for training, that is BS. My checkout was a couple of dry runs, pick up just a lead pole, pick up the company banner and then I was on my own, no big deal. About 1 1/2 fillups on a 150 horse C-150.

 

[jlarocca]

banner towing

Some good info in these posts but I still have several questions. I am looking at a company out of Myrtle Beach, SC. called Sky Signs. Any one have anything to say about them? They also charge 2G's for training (25 flt. hrs along with some ground training). They have a full-time A&P working on the planes so I am not too concerned about their a/c. Their insurance requires 50 hr of tailwheel time which they will sell to you for $60 /hr. after the 25 hrs of training. I have been looking at many locations in FL, NY, NJ, SC, OH, LA and most of them require some sort of a training program that is in the vicinity of 20-25 hrs and 2 grand. Help me out!
I've got 450 hrs, zero tailwheel but would like to take the summer off from instructing and this sounds like some fun flying! I'm looking forward to leaving the door open for once!

 

[tangodelta21]

Get your tailwheel and go talk to Jim Butler at Aerial Sign at North Perry Airport in Hollywood, Fl. Like the above post stated they are a class act as far as banner towing goes. You would get to travel all over with them and they pay you pretty decient. I would go see him in the next 5 or 6 weeks and see if you can get set up for the summer. I might see you there.

As far as the TSA pulling our waivers for the stadiums and open air events we have them back and are going strong. We all had to do a federal background check and that's all. And that is fine by me, as long as it makes the public happy. The NFL, NCAA, MLB...thats a different story.

 

[Rich Man]

have his #?

Do you have his Phone #?

I have some tailwheel time and would love to do some towing...

Heck anything to get back in the air!!!


Rich!

 

[F9 Driver]

I towed for Sky Signs back in the mid 90's under diferent management.

They were a good company and flew a fairly safe operation (two accidents the summer I was there -a ground loop, and a pilot induced touch down during a banner training pickup that flipped the plane in the middle of a soy bean field and broke it in half - no injuries.)

That being said - you have to do the math. At 10$/hour you are working for the summer FOR FREE less room and board if they want you to PFT.

Times have changed, and I paid for my tailwheel training in college, and about four hours of time @ ~50$/hr picking up banners "training" for my first job out of college in NJ, but 2K for banner training - NO WAY!

Also, unless things have changed, you don't get anything from the F'n AA when you are allowed to tow. The operator gets your name added to THEIR waver. If you do this make sure that you get a photocopy of their waver with your name on it for your $$.

Do a good preflight/postflight and remember - you can always find a new job if you are alive to do so! No amount of hours are worth dieing for!

Good luck!

 

[LearAv8r]

Aerial Sign Company in Hollywood FL

954-989-2086

good luck

LearAv8r-

 

[avbug]

I started and ran a banner operation about ten years ago. It used two airplanes, a Cessna 172 (180 horse), and a Cessna 182A. I also had a Cessna 150 with a 0-320 available to use. It went well, and served it's purpose; it was to supplement other business affairs, and it did that just fine.

I can't imagine what someone could talk about or teach for 25 hours of training, while putting an employee on line flying banners. It's just not rocket science.

I did two tows on my own, then a couple of tows for the FAA. I had several others tow for the FAA, and none of them had ever picked up or towed a banner in their life. Their next tow was for revenue, and they had no problems. Charging two grand for that is outrageous highway robbery.

Is banner towing something you want to do? You have to answer that for yourself. You also have to ask yourself if you have anything else in the works right now. No? Then banner towing is probably great, if you get the chance. I have long maintained that the greatest airplane in the world is the one I'm privileged to fly right now, whatever that may be. If you can find work flying, find it, period. Beggars can afford to be choosers only with respect to safety issues; beyond that, if towing banners is the only job available to you, then it's the best job in the world, and you should jump at it.

Towing banners isn't exciting. It isn't particularly challenging, and it isn't a deep, meaningful experience. It is flying, and whatever flying is to you, that is what banner towing will be for you. You can waste your hours towing building hours, or you can gain a wealth of understanding by building experience...it's up to you what you get from it. Beyond that, it's a paycheck. In a time when a paycheck isn't to be taken for granted (has it ever been??), then you have something more to be grateful for. Add to that the fact that it's a paycheck for flying an airplane instead of sitting behind a desk or mopping floors, and you have a great deal to be thankful for.

I wouldn't pay two grand to buy that opportunity, but if you can find an employer willing to hire you, then take what you can find, and smile. It's a good day.