Babysitting the airplane

[Newjetjockey]

Another exciting announcement at SWA recently is that they are supposedly going to be getting rid of the requiremt for the pilots to have to pull the gear pins every morning on originators. Thank Gawd! This will put one ridiculous proceedure to bed hopefully.

An even more absurd and annoying proceedure at SWA is that at least one pilot must stay with the aircraft anytime there is ground power on the aircraft. Any time there are passengers on board you have to have power on the aircraft. Therefore you have to sit there and babysit the aircraft during all turns and crew swaps unless the new crew is at the gate waiting for you. You actually have to wait for the other crew to get there unless every pax gets off and you must power down and terminate the aircraft. SWA has tons of through flights so there's usually pax that stay on the aircraft and SWA is too scared of lawsuits to tell them to get off the plane.

I gotta know. Are there any other airlines that do this?

 

[Ops check good]

That sounds fairly normal to me? Are you suggesting that other airlines leave pax on the plane with no crew? Someone trained on the A/C should remain with the A/C when it is powered up to monitor it. Ever seen a ramper who "knows" how to turn power on deploy the O2 masks? I have.

 

[GogglesPisano]

No pilots are required to remain on at Delta. FA's with pax, yes (obviously.)

The last time I recall that requirement I was flying a DoJet -- which had no automatic APU fire protection.

 

[Newjetjockey]

That sounds fairly normal to me? Are you suggesting that other airlines leave pax on the plane with no crew? Someone trained on the A/C should remain with the A/C when it is powered up to monitor it. Ever seen a ramper who "knows" how to turn power on deploy the O2 masks? I have.

Where do you work?

Yeah, at the Tranny we left the A/C powered all the time. Grab your bags and go!....unless you're terminating. Often I've seen empty cockpits when I get off the aircraft of other airlines.

 

[Ty Webb]

That sounds fairly normal to me? Are you suggesting that other airlines leave pax on the plane with no crew? Someone trained on the A/C should remain with the A/C when it is powered up to monitor it. Ever seen a ramper who "knows" how to turn power on deploy the O2 masks? I have.

They are talking about an aircraft that has ground power up, emergency exit lights armed, and with the FAs on board.

I don't know of any airline that requires a pilot to be on board, only FAs.

 

[Ops check good]

Sorry I yelled

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Supposedly it's driven by ground ops. What other airline drives their pilot policies by ground ops? Just the ones that want to spread the Luv I guess. Where is flight ops leadership on this? Actually, I know. Because their squadron did not have a policy in place allowing them to do it, they just assume that they can't. Obviously you can't leave an F15 powered up until the next crew arrives, therefore, no other airplane can remain powered up until the next crew arrives.

 

[145BOSS]

At United we are also permitted to leave the aircraft with the APU on.

 

[SIG600]

That sounds fairly normal to me? Are you suggesting that other airlines leave pax on the plane with no crew? Someone trained on the A/C should remain with the A/C when it is powered up to monitor it. Ever seen a ramper who "knows" how to turn power on deploy the O2 masks? I have.

That's the FA job. Set the break, run the parking checklist... Split. If it's the end of the night, terminate with the ground service bus powered, then split.

 

[Newjetjockey]

American?
Alaska?
JetBlue?
Frontier?
Spirit?

Just curious if any other majors do this. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[canyonblue]

Another exciting announcement at SWA recently ...........
An even more absurd and annoying proceedure at SWA is that........

The Classic Tranny Jackas$, thank God they really are the minority. I have flown with some great guys from AirTran, but recently I've been seeing more and more of these guys. I call them the Band Camp trannys..

This one time, at AirTran...

This one time, at AirTran...

Just hoping I don't see a flute.

Fu(k guys, give it a rest. uke:

 

[Guppiedriver]

That sounds fairly normal to me? Are you suggesting that other airlines leave pax on the plane with no crew? Someone trained on the A/C should remain with the A/C when it is powered up to monitor it. Ever seen a ramper who "knows" how to turn power on deploy the O2 masks? I have.

Why in the hell would you need to deploy O2 masks on the ground?

 

[Guppiedriver]

American?
Alaska?
JetBlue?
Frontier?
Spirit?

Just curious if any other majors do this. Thanks for the feedback.

No at American.

 

[Newjetjockey]

The Classic Tranny Jackas$, thank God they really are the minority. I have flown with some great guys from AirTran, but recently I've been seeing more and more of these guys. I call them the Band Camp trannys..

This one time, at AirTran...

This one time, at AirTran...

Just hoping I don't see a flute.

Fu(k guys, give it a rest. uke:

Hey Canyonblue,

Maybe when you get out from under Van De Ven's desk you'll realize SWA isn't as perfect as it is in your dreams. I just talked to a CA who sat with a plane for two hours at the end of his trip. You can't make this stuff up!

 

[$$$4nothin]

No at American.

No at JB.

 

[CesnaCaptn]

American?
Alaska?
JetBlue?
Frontier?
Spirit?

Just curious if any other majors do this. Thanks for the feedback.

At Alaska, no babysitting is required (it is requested by management to say good bye and smile for every deplaning pax). Management requests are frequently ignored.

 

[Metrojet]

Hey Canyonblue,

Maybe when you get out from under Van De Ven's desk you'll realize SWA isn't as perfect as it is in your dreams. I just talked to a CA who sat with a plane for two hours at the end of his trip. You can't make this stuff up!

Did he get per diem and any flight time duty rig credit for that?

 

[Capn Butthead]

I've had to sit and wait an hour for another crew at the end of the day...sucks but it is what it is...sent the FO home as soon as we parked and I waited...called scheduling to adjust my release time.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

The Classic Tranny Jackas$, thank God they really are the minority. I have flown with some great guys from AirTran, but recently I've been seeing more and more of these guys. I call them the Band Camp trannys..



This one time, at AirTran...



This one time, at AirTran...



Just hoping I don't see a flute.



Fu(k guys, give it a rest. uke:

He is right on this one though. There's no reason for a pilot to remain onboard unless the APU is running and/or a fuel pump is on.

It is one of the more ... shall we say "unique" procedures.

And I'm not from AirTran (at least not since 98)

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Hey Canyonblue,

Maybe when you get out from under Van De Ven's desk you'll realize SWA isn't as perfect as it is in your dreams. I just talked to a CA who sat with a plane for two hours at the end of his trip. You can't make this stuff up!

Why in God's name would someone sit around for 2 hours!?

I'd bet if every pilot powered the aircraft "down to the blue light" before they left the aircraft that policy would get fixed real quick.

 

[capt1900]

Why in God's name would someone sit around for 2 hours!?

I'd bet if every pilot powered the aircraft "down to the blue light" before they left the aircraft that policy would get fixed real quick.

He was a "kernel" from Phoenix and didn't want to get home early to find motorcycles in his driveway. Plus it gave him two more hours to micromanage. That's what I heard anyway.

 

[gooseman13]

Why in the hell would you need to deploy O2 masks on the ground?

I'm assuming that was the point...

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

The Classic Tranny Jackas$, thank God they really are the minority. I have flown with some great guys from AirTran, but recently I've been seeing more and more of these guys. I call them the Band Camp trannys..

This one time, at AirTran...

This one time, at AirTran...

Just hoping I don't see a flute.

Fu(k guys, give it a rest. uke:

Ooooh, somebody hurt your feelings. Grow up captain, believe it or not there are better ways to do some things. If you can't handle it and believe it's a safety issue, please call the CP on duty and discuss it, I'm sure your f/o's will be happy to talk to them as well.

 

[humveedriver]

The Classic Tranny Jackas$, thank God they really are the minority. I have flown with some great guys from AirTran, but recently I've been seeing more and more of these guys. I call them the Band Camp trannys..

This one time, at AirTran...

This one time, at AirTran...

Just hoping I don't see a flute.

Fu(k guys, give it a rest. uke:

Uh. It's stupid. And an inconsistent rule as well. We leave the APU running unattended on international turns and as part of cold weather ops. I can normally find the classic vs. NG reasons behind a lot dumbed down procedures. But this ground power thing is retarded.

 

[Clutch]

Why in the hell would you need to deploy O2 masks on the ground?

He's saying the rampers claim to know how to power down the aircraft and then subsequently deploy the rubber jungle instead.

 

[FlyBarneyJets]

Who cares who does what?

It doesn't matter whether there are better ways to do something until those ways come to the airline who's paying your salary.

 

[canyonblue]

Uh. It's stupid. And an inconsistent rule as well. We leave the APU running unattended on international turns and as part of cold weather ops.

And MX will bring it to the gate, with the APU running, and leave it alone also. Why can they do it? It doesn't make sense but how often does it ever affect me? I wish they would change it, but in the grand scheme, it happens so rarely I don't get all mental over it like some guys.

Why in God's name would someone sit around for 2 hours!?

Nobody would, it's a made up story. There is no reason to ever leave passengers on an aircraft for 2 hours. If the next flight was that far away they would deplane them and then you would just shut it down, I've done it before.

Who cares who does what?

It doesn't matter whether there are better ways to do something until those ways come to the airline who's paying your salary.

Like a Checkairman recently told me, some people are just going to be miserable no matter what.

 

[Ty Webb]

The Classic Tranny Jackas$, thank God they really are the minority. I have flown with some great guys from AirTran, but recently I've been seeing more and more of these guys. I call them the Band Camp trannys..

This one time, at AirTran...

This one time, at AirTran...

Just hoping I don't see a flute.

Fu(k guys, give it a rest. uke:

Do you think you acting like the classic Corndog Kernel might have anything to do with you "flying with more and more of these guys"?.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

And MX will bring it to the gate, with the APU running, and leave it alone also. Why can they do it? It doesn't make sense but how often does it ever affect me? I wish they would change it, but in the grand scheme, it happens so rarely I don't get all mental over it like some guys.

It affects you every day and on every turn.

What if you had a twenty minute turn. You wanted to use a real, porcelain potty and the Captain wanted to go buy Auntie Anne's pretzels for the crew. Right now you have to rush your business (assuming he lets you go first) so that you get back in time for him to run upstairs. If they would eliminate this policy, once the airplane was on ground power with the APU shut down you could both bail out as soon as the parking checklist was done, divide and conquer.

It's really an efficiency issue as much as anything else. We can be more productive with our limited time if we aren't chained to the airplane for no reason.

Here's another example. You are headed to Denver with a planned 60 minutes for an airplane swap. You think you'll have plenty of time to grab some lunch, use the restroom, and maybe even run up to the lounge to grab the latest CQT study guide. Instead after landing and shutting down you find out that the inbound crew isn't due in for :30 minutes and since there are through passengers we are required to stay with the plane. One of the pilots is going to be stuck babysitting while the other reaps the benefits of a break in the action.

You're right, it's a tiny thing just like gear pins are a tiny thing. But eliminating a policy that has no real bearing on safety would improve the at-work quality of life of the crews and specifically of the first officers.

I suspect it doesn't mean much to those who are working for their first and only airline - they don't know any better. (And some are conditioned to follow orders by decades of service) but for those who have experienced life under other liveries it is a more difficult pill to swallow.

 

[canyonblue]

You're right, it's a tiny thing just like gear pins are a tiny thing.

Gear pins are just plane stupid. I can see, but don't necessarily agree, the fact that some idiot could accidentally knock out the ground power (I've had it happen), but have you ever seen a 737 spontaneously go gear up on the ramp?