B6 decision

[RJidiot]

Is compensation the main reason for attrition at jetBlue or are there other issues causing turnover? I did a search and it keeps coming back to money.

 

[another cfii]

Show me the money and i'll show you loyalty!

 

[MEK]

Sorry, hijack......


Pilot Open House
Saturday, May 12, 2007
Orlando Support Center
8265 Hangar Blvd.
Orlando, FL 32827
10:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m.
Visit our Training Campus in Orlando, Florida and meet the JetBlue Flight Operations, Training and Recruitment Leadership Team. Transportation: Our JetBlue 32 passenger bus will be departingMCO Terminal A, lower level, spaces 26/27 every 20 minutes between 9:00 a.m. and 1:00 p.m. If you are driving, parking is available on campus.Attire: This is a casual event so please wear commuter friendlycasual business attire or your uniform. Apply on-line: If you are interested in joining the JetBlue Flight Ops Team, please apply on-line at www.jetblue.com. Candidates must meet our First Officer minimum qualificationsto be considered for employment. You are welcome to bring an updated resume to the Open House. Attendance is not required to be considered for an interview.

 

[intooclose]

Most of the 400+ US Air guys are going back I think, the 100+ American, and 150+ United guys as well. Plus the growth.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

Most of the 400+ US Air guys are going back I think, the 100+ American, and 150+ United guys as well. Plus the growth.

I would bet that since the seniority integration that most of the US Air guys will be staying.

GP

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

I would bet that since the seniority integration that most of the US Air guys will be staying.

GP

Yep...

 

[Kaman]

I was talking with a JBA pilot in BOS the other day that is US furloughee, and said that he is not going back after reading the integration agreement. Not sure exactly how bad it is, but I suspect that the grass isn't always greener on your old pasture either.

 

[intooclose]

You guys may be right. I have not seen that yet. I had a US Air guy in my Jumpseat and he is going back and some friends of his as well, but he may be in the minority.

Fly Safe

 

[LearLove]

Most of the 400+ US Air guys are going back I think, ...

I think the arbitrator put the kabash on that.....

 

[GuinessGuy]

It boils down to retirement. Years left in the industry and the amount of dollars at the end (United, AA,........not USAir). The USAir guys will most likely stay.
B6 retirement is going in right direction (more to go) to retain and attract.

 

[Heavy Set]

So, any potential JetBlue newhire should understand that upgrade times have now been increased (likely) due to the USAirways arbitrator's decision. The impact is that you will sit in the FO seat longer. Just another consideration. Gotta love our legal system...

Merger integration is a b!tch - just ask any Reno Air pilot...

 

[islandpirate]

Merger integration is a b!tch - just ask any Reno Air pilot...

That was not a "merger". Neither was Amer West/USAir or AA/TWA. These are known as "acquisitions" in the financial world. They are mildly different than mergers.

 

[Headfake14]

So, any potential JetBlue newhire should understand that upgrade times have now been increased (likely) due to the USAirways arbitrator's decision. The impact is that you will sit in the FO seat longer. Just another consideration. Gotta love our legal system...

Merger integration is a b!tch - just ask any Reno Air pilot...

I'm happy to sit right seat here (B6) than captain at my old regional...

 

[another cfii]

So, any potential JetBlue newhire should understand that upgrade times have now been increased (likely) due to the USAirways arbitrator's decision. The impact is that you will sit in the FO seat longer. Just another consideration. Gotta love our legal system...

Merger integration is a b!tch - just ask any Reno Air pilot...

I never anticipated that many people go back to US Air anyway. I doubt anybody, including the company can anticipate how the US Air integration list would pan out.

 

[Lear70]

That was not a "merger". Neither was Amer West/USAir or AA/TWA. These are known as "acquisitions" in the financial world. They are mildly different than mergers.

Keep you day job.

AA/TWA was an "acquisition. AMR purchased TWA.

AWA/UAir was not an "acquisition". I don't know where you dreamed up the idea that AWA had over a Billion $$ to buy an airline when they were making just under $10 million a year in profit, but if you really are thinking that, can you pass the bong?

Now, for your history lesson for the day.

The CEO's of both companies (AWA and UAir) went drumming up money TOGETHER trying to get enough to funnel through AWA for the deal to work. It was funneled through AWA only to appease the DOJ.

When both companies get together to combine operations, it's called a merger. What AAI is doing right now with Midwest is an acquisition (when you put up all the cash/stock yourself or by yourself through your own investors without any help from the company you're buying).

I was talking with a JBA pilot in BOS the other day that is US furloughee, and said that he is not going back after reading the integration agreement. Not sure exactly how bad it is, but I suspect that the grass isn't always greener on your old pasture either.

It's bad.

Especially for a furloughee.

Initially they thought they'd be going back to some type of fenced protection or, at the very least, DOH or something close to it.

Instead, a 14 year UAir furloughee went to the very bottom of the new combined list, which means that a 2-year AWA F/O will upgrade before any of the furloughees.

Basically, with the 1,800 AWA pilots on top of all the furloughees, unless you have about 20 years left to fly, you'll NEVER see a widebody upgrade at UAir.

The only people who will apply to UAir when they finish recall are the bottom of the pile regionals with minimal PIC time or pilots who don't do their homework and don't understand 12-15 year upgrades into a narrowbody, 20 year upgrades onto a widebody aircraft.

If I was a CA at anywhere decent (AAI, JBlue, F9, etc), there's no way in hell I'd take recall at UAir.

disclaimer: I don't work for nor have I ever worked for UAir.

 

[WDE]

Compensation is slowly moving in the right direction. FWIW, I'm a 2nd yr FO on the 320, and I'm on track to gross about 88000 for the year. And no , I'm not a whore and I commute and I'm in the middle of 10 days off in a row(no vacation). It ain't that bad !

 

[Lear70]

On how many days off per month? How many hours of block? of Credit?


Are you able to commute EVERY trip? (no hotels). If not, how many hotel nights do you burn monthly?

Took a look at the pay rates and I don't see how that's possible unless you're crediting over 100 hours a month, work through your vacation, and count your per diem in that income (I don't count per diem as income).

 

[WDE]

There's no doubt about it, I'm getting soft pay. I use Flica alerts, and pick up DH's whenever possible. If you use the system correctly, there is plenty of easy money to make. Oh yeah, I don't have a crashpad, I bid commutable trips, average stay in the crew room is 1 night a month when things don't work out. Like I said, just my personal info, not everyone makes this, but not everyone works the system either.

 

[islandpirate]

Lear70:

My bad. Mistyped airline names in my reply. Meant to ref AA/TWA. You are correct.

 

[Sun Devil 2000]

Sorry for my ignorance but I have a question about Jet Blue. Does the Long Beach domicile still exist? If so how senior is it and how long would it take to hold it out of training? Thanks for the info!

SDVL

 

[JetFumes]

Compensation is slowly moving in the right direction. FWIW, I'm a 2nd yr FO on the 320, and I'm on track to gross about 88000 for the year. And no , I'm not a whore and I commute and I'm in the middle of 10 days off in a row(no vacation). It ain't that bad !

Sorry, got to call Bullsh2t on that. I don't see how that is possible, even with soft time. If you block that much then you'll time out before the end of the year, and still be limited to less pay than that.

 

[Lebowski]

Sorry, got to call Bullsh2t on that. I don't see how that is possible, even with soft time. If you block that much then you'll time out before the end of the year, and still be limited to less pay than that.

I don't think it's BS. I grossed 58.5K when I was on 2nd year pay at my regional, getting paid roughly 35/hr at the base rate. If you're crafty about avoiding low credit trips and picking up higher leverage ones (especially at time and half), it can be done.

Although now that I'm really thinking about it, I think a lot of that also has to do with how desperate the company is for people to pick up open time. For example, I got deadheaded around quite a bit at time and half to pick up open time out-of-domicile. I can't remember for sure, but I don't think deadheads count toward your yearly scheduled block limit. I'm sure someone will correct me quickly if I'm wrong.

 

[Lear70]

You're not wrong. Deadhead doesn't count towards any of the FAR 121.471(b) flight time limitations.

That said, you must have been on 2nd year CA pay at your regional (don't leave out the important details).

I called b.s. on that before. That's just simply not a reliable average people can look at and plan on for salary planning purposes when making a job decision.

It's misleading and may actually hurt someone... be careful what you post on here. People actually DO use this sight for research.

 

[Lebowski]

You're not wrong. Deadhead doesn't count towards any of the FAR 121.471(b) flight time limitations.

That said, you must have been on 2nd year CA pay at your regional (don't leave out the important details).

I called b.s. on that before. That's just simply not a reliable average people can look at and plan on for salary planning purposes when making a job decision.

It's misleading and may actually hurt someone... be careful what you post on here. People actually DO use this sight for research.

Hi Lear,

Thanks for the tip, but you're wrong about the pay, and if you're going to "call B.S." I'll have to match your B.S. and raise you another B.S. : )

It was 2nd year F.O. pay at one of the bigger regionals--I stated clearly it was based on 35/hr. Captain or F.O. pay, what's the difference? It was 35/hr.

And when did I say that my 2nd year pay was a "reliable average" that other people should look to for making a job decision? I'm not trying to persuade anyone that that's "average" pay. I'm just stating a fact about what I made.

I don't think it's a reliable average at all. I think it's well above average. My first year pay at my first 121 carrier averaged out to something like 15K for the year, but again, I wasn't trying to give an all-inclusive financial analysis of F.O. pay across the industry. We all should know that the pay sucks overall, which I think is your real point, which I completely agree with. I understand your intent (I think) but just because you "call B.S." doesn't make it so.

Someone above said it wasn't possible for a JetBlue F.O. to make 88K a year on second year pay (at 50+/hr) and, in the guy's defense, I simply pointed out that I made close to 60K at (at 35/hr). That was the only point to my post.

88K on 2nd year F.O. pay at JB is not out of the question.

Above average? Most likely.

B.S.? I don't think so.

 

[Enterprise]

I am a 2nd year FO and I am track for around 80k. average 14-15 days off or so doing it with mostly commutable trips. 2 nights or so in the crashpad. I do redeyes sometimes. I was at the back end of 500 hired in a year so my seniority has not shot up as much as the people a few months ahead of me but there is better living through Flica. As for LGB the most junior FO there has been here for 14 months and he just got it on the June system bid. FLL and BOS have been hit and miss but plan on 6 months.

 

[Longhorn]

Made 73K in my first 12 months here as a 320 FO. At the time though, reserve was only about 2 months.

 

[IronCityBlue]

its definately possible

On how many days off per month? How many hours of block? of Credit?


Are you able to commute EVERY trip? (no hotels). If not, how many hotel nights do you burn monthly?

Took a look at the pay rates and I don't see how that's possible unless you're crediting over 100 hours a month, work through your vacation, and count your per diem in that income (I don't count per diem as income).

I'll throw my 2 cents in that its definately possible. Once you're a lineholder you can make that kind of money here especialy on 2nd and 3rd year pay. You will have to do more than the bare minimum ammount of work of course, but you don't have to put forth a superhuman effort when it comes to flying. Its worth mentioning that, while not actually flying a superhuman ammount, to do this you will still have to spend IMO a large ammount of time and effort actually working the system. 88K second year is not possible with a simple bid line, get line, fly line, go home strategy. I can work the system a little bit, but at some point it becomes as much work as, well, work.

And if you live in base (especially...OK, maybe only JFK) and are a complete workaholic who works the system as much as humanly possible, hits 1000 hours per year, picks up every reserve day legally possible, is tied to their PDA (stylus ready) alerting you to deadheads, rigs, min credit day turns and every potential opportunity to work the system, you can hit 6 figures as a 2nd/3rd year FO. Now for those of you reading these posts trying to base your career decisions on the experiences of others, trust me when I tell you, while possible to make this kind of money, very, very few of you will find the time to work that hard or be that creative.

 

[zkmayo]

And if you live in base (especially...OK, maybe only JFK) and are a complete workaholic who works the system as much as humanly possible, hits 1000 hours per year, picks up every reserve day legally possible, is tied to their PDA (stylus ready) alerting you to deadheads, rigs, min credit day turns and every potential opportunity to work the system, you can hit 6 figures as a 2nd/3rd year FO. Now for those of you reading these posts trying to base your career decisions on the experiences of others, trust me when I tell you, while possible to make this kind of money, very, very few of you will find the time to work that hard or be that creative.

Ive got a good friend who is the person you described above. He credited (not blocked) 163 hours in April. He should fairly easily make 6 figures this year. He is an expert at working the system from all angles and lives in NYC. His results are not typical.

If I was looking for some solid advice on what I would make my first couple years at JB, I would tell you about $50K first year, and second about $65k not including per diem and not really lifting a finger. The biggest variable would be how long your on reserve and if you want to work harder. No doubt about it, JB's time and a half (premium/incentive pay) is a strong incentive to fly more than min sched.

 

[HighSpeedClimb]

Yep...

ATR I missed you in Hawaii....Good trip?

 

[clickclickboom]

If you are a commuter and are " Working the System " then you have no life, your wife hates you, and your kids don't know you

My #1 motivator after 4 or 5 days is seeing my family.. I am bidding 50% as a 320 FO at JB and have been here 16 months. There are 6 E190 captains that are junior to me,, I always bid min sked and then add trips where it suits me(ex.. end of 4 day trip gets in at 8pm, probably wont make it home so i will pick up a 6 credit hr day turn that finishes at 2pm) I usually end up with just shy of 90 hrs for the month and my historical average for total days off per month here is 15.4..

This months bid got me every weekend off, 83.58 hrs credit and 17 days off and all trips are at least commutable on one side 1 is both. I average approximately 2.05 extra hrs per month due to taxi, holding etc....

I will make 70,000 this year and receive approximately $6800 in per diem and no i dont take a week of food in baggies from home i buy myself a hot meal whenever possible.

I will receive a $3500 guaranteed retirement payment and if our profit sharing is over 5% of my salary the balance will be a direct payment to me.

I will contribute 5% or $3500 and the company will match 5% or $3500.. My total retirement contribution for the year will be $10,500..

Hopefully this info will help out..

A crash pad will cost about $300 per month all in including the randon taxi to the terminal when its pouring out, airport bus or kew runner to lga to catch a flight home, that one time $125 cab to ewr because all the flight in lga are sold out etc etc